Assembly of God Question

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by rlvaughn, Aug 13, 2003.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    On some thread (which I have forgotten by now), there was mention of a Baptist association in Arkansas that went over en masse to the Assembly of God. From what I received from Glenn Gohr of the Flower Pentecostal Heritage Center in an e-mail dated 8/12/03, I think this is the group:
     
  2. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Brother Vaughn,

    I am the one who made the statement to which you refer. I may be getting my facts mixed up, but I think I may have read of another association which went over to the Assemblies of God. I'm over forty now and it's hard sometimes to keep it all sorted out in my mind. [​IMG]

    In any event, in the thread where this subject was raised (Twisted Historical Logic) I gave THIS LINK referencing the association you mentioned.

    Back in the 1980s I picked up a newspaper and in it was a headline that proclaimed such and such "Church of God in Christ" in Little Rock was celebrating it's 100th anniversary. My first thought was that the Church of God in Christ had not been around long enough for one of it's congregations to be having a 100th anniversary. Sure enough, as I read the article it said the church was originally founded as a Baptist church in the 1800s.

    I'm sure many such instances of Baptist churches going over to the various Pentecostal groups (as well as Campbellites) could be given.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  3. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Brother Osgatharp, if I find any more information I will post it later. If I can find this thread - by the time I got the e-mail, I couldn't even find the thread where we had discussed it!

    A number of modern Pentecostal/Holiness type groups have Baptist origins, and some even retain Baptist in their name. If memory serves (the above comments could make that questionable!), the following groups are splits from Baptists and came over almost wholly from Baptists. Many others without direct Baptist origins have filled their ranks with former Baptists.

    </font>
    • Holiness Baptist Association (GA) - from the Little River (Missionary) Baptist Association</font>
    • Church of God of the Mountain Assembly (TN) - from a Missionary Baptist Association in TN</font>
    • Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church (NC, etc.) - from NC Freewill Baptists</font>
    • Church of Christ (Holiness) U.S.A. (AR,MS, etc.) - from black missionary Baptists</font>
    • General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church (NC) - from NC Freewill Baptists</font>
    • Christian Baptist Church of God (OH, KY, WV, etc.) - don't remember exactly from where</font>
     
  4. Ben W

    Ben W
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    In Australia a number of Baptist churches are hiring people that have been involved with the AOG, to make there churches more like the AOG - Pentecostal groups.

    There is one group called the Morphett Vale Baptist Church that did this many years ago, and now has grown form a few hundred to a membership of well over 200 people.

    As I see it, people like the Pentecostal thing, yet based on Baptist theology, strong on the influence of studing the word. Not just all froth and bubble.
     
  5. rsr

    rsr
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    Thanks for the information, Robert and Mark.

    The Arkansas association must have already been influenced by Wesleyanism, given that it already had adopted the "holiness" label. It is interesting that the Piney Grove church apparently, from Mark's information, became Pentecostal well before the Azusa Street movement and even before the Topeka experience.

    Here's a link to a lengthy (by Internet standards) history of the Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church.

    The Pentecostal Free Will Baptists make the link, at least in their case, to Wesleyan theology explicit:

    Pentecostal Free Will Baptist History

     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Interesting subject. The trend is even stronger out here in Wyoming. Not as "churches", but as "individuals".

    Whole groups have left ifb churches for a variety of pentecostal touchy-feely groups.
     
  7. rsr

    rsr
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    The Church of God Mountain Assembly claims more than 100 churches in the United States and almost 500 worldwide.

    The denomination has begun archiving its journal, The Gospel Herald, in which this can be found in the first (July 1942) edition:

    The Rev. Kim Moses, Little Wolf Creek Church, Jellico, Tenn.
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    There is at least one split each (and maybe two) from the Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church, the Church of God of the Mountain Assembly, and the Holiness Baptist Association (GA). I can't remember where I have this information stored (obviously not in my head), and can't find it. Seems that possibly the Calvary Holiness Association is a split from one of these groups, as well as the Baptist Purity Association.

    Maybe a little off the history theme, but any thoughts on why the Baptists have supplied numerous members for the Pentecostal/Holiness groups (as well as the Campbellites, Adventists, and probably Mormons & JW's)?
     
  9. rsr

    rsr
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    Georgia Baptist History Depository, Special Collections, Jack Tarver Library, Mercer University

    Unfortunately, that's all I could find.

    As to the general question, I have a musing or two but want to give it more thought, Robert.

    BTW: E.N. Bell, first chairman of the General Council of the Assemblies of God, was a graduate of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and a former Baptist preacher.
     
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Yes, that jogged the memory a little - both the Calvary Holiness Association and the Baptist Purity Association are splits from the Holiness Baptist Association of Georgia. I think that there is a Church of God of the Union Assembly that split from the Mountain Assembly. It seems also that there is a division of the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church that calls itself the Freewill Baptist Church of the Pentecostal Faith. I would add that though some of these groups have some remaining evidence of their Baptist heritage, and sometimes retain "Baptist" in their name, they recognizes themselves in and move among the Pentecostal/Holiness.

    Some opinions on why Baptists may have tended to be drawn off into these groups: Baptists emphasize the priesthood of the believer, but sometimes at the risk of undervaluing the need of input from the body of believers to keep us from running off in tangents. Additionally, since each church body is independent & autonomous, there is no ruling authority to see that a church maintains doctrinal integrity (and that this independence can arrogate itself into stubborn refusal to even consider the possibility of hearing the loving admonition of sister churches). Lastly, there is among Baptists a doctrinal tension between Spirit leadership & Biblical authority, which, when the delicate balance is disturbed, can send one spinning off into extremism toward either Pentecostalism or Campbellism (or even liberalism). Add to this the facts that some people don't really care where they go to church and are willing follow any "charismatic" (pun intended) leader, and that we Baptists sometimes do a poor job of teaching the Bible to church and family members. Just some musings on the subject - I've not really studied it out.
     
  11. rsr

    rsr
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    Robert, I think you came up with basically the same rationales I was considering.

    In addition, I think any church that requires believer's baptism for membership is automatically at a disadvantage in hanging on to its young. In covenantal and sacramental bodies, the decision has been made for you; you are automatically a part of the church.

    And I think there is something to the Baptists' immense growth as a result of the Second Great Awakening, which encouraged the revivalist tradition. The Methodists had a similar experience, and much of Pentecostalism sprang in conjunction with the Wesleyan doctrine of Holiness. (The Nazarenes being a prominent exception of retaining Holiness teaching without becoming charismatic.)

    I guess the Campbellites would prove to be an exception to this thesis, but that sect provided a good number of Mormon (and other) converts, if memory serves me.

    I would like to mention Sidney Rigdon again as an example of the bewildering course of church history after the Second Great Awakening. Originally Baptist, then (like many Baptists of the time) a Campbellite, then right-hand adviser of Joseph Smith, and finally an excommunicate of Brigham Young.

    Just some (perhaps incorrect) observations.
     
  12. atestring

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    The man that preached at Azusa street (William F. Seymore) was a Baptist.
    At Beeson Seminary (A Southern Baptist Seminary) in Birmingham Alabama there is a painting entitled: "The Cloud of Witnesses."
    It is a Painting of several ( I think the number is 12) people that influenced Christianity ex. Lottie Moon, Spurgeon, Martin Luther, John Wesley etc.
    Among these is William F. Seymore. The criteria had to do with the contribution of the greatest people that influenced Christianity. This tells me that if a SBC Seminary would put William F. it could be that Baptist are not really hostile toward Pentecostals.
     
  13. rsr

    rsr
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    Beeson is part of a school that is Wesleyan-Arminian, not necessarily Baptist. Appreciate the comment, though, because it illustrates the theme.

    Beeson Seminary
     
  14. rsr

    rsr
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  15. atestring

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    Beeson is more Calvinist than Armenian.
     
  16. rsr

    rsr
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    Sorry about that; it appears you're right. I can't remember now how I concluded that was the case; some reference on the site I can't locate now.

     
  17. Mike Stidham

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    Mark,
    When you consider that the Disciples of Christ (who later split into Disciples, Independent Christian Churches, and Church of Christ) started as a distinct movement when Alexander Campbell was disfellowshipped by the Redstone Baptist Association...
    If they hadn't been kicked out, all Campbellites would BE Baptists! [​IMG]
     
  18. Mark Osgatharp

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    Mike,

    Wow, I can't believe it's been two years ago this thread was made. Not only that, I haven't even looked at the history forum for at least a month, and I just happened to look in tonight right after you made this post.

    Actually, had the Baptists not turned out the Campbellites there might well have been many more Baptists deceived into that movement than there were. As it is, they drew thousands off into their soul damning heresy.

    Mark Osgatharp

    (Edited to remove off-topic comments)

    [ August 30, 2005, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  19. MatthewHenry

    MatthewHenry
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    (Edited to remove off-topic comments)

    [ August 30, 2005, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]
     
  20. rsr

    rsr
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    Let's keep the discussion on history, not theology.

    Thanks
     

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