Association—“separation of church and state”

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Alcott, Feb 22, 2008.

?

Which name do you most associate with the phrase "separation of church and state"?

  1. Hugo Black

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. James Dunn

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Thomas Jefferson

    12 vote(s)
    42.9%
  4. John Leland

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  5. Barry Lynn

    2 vote(s)
    7.1%
  6. James Madison

    2 vote(s)
    7.1%
  7. Michael Newdow

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Madalyn Murray O’Hair

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  9. Roger Williams

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  10. Other

    3 vote(s)
    10.7%
  1. Alcott

    Alcott
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    What name, which has been so attached, do you most associate with the phrase “separation of church and state?”
     
  2. Alcott

    Alcott
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    Tom Jefferson, Mad O'Hair, and Roger Williams share the lead? It's hard to tell whether that's more like the Roman Triumvariate or the Three Stooges.
     
  3. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    John Leland and James Madison come my mind first.
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    There's only one "stooge" among those three: Ms. O'Hair.

    Roger Williams (a Baptist) created the image ("a hedge of separation), Jefferson referenced Williams' illustration ("a wall of separation") in his letter to the Danbury Baptist Association to explain what had been done in the First Amendment, and Ms. O'Hair tried to use the principle to advance various atheistic causes in the 1960s-1980s. FWIW, Ms. O'Hair wasn't terribly popular among atheists because of her character, personality, and her desire to make headlines and push her personal agendas.
     
  5. AAA

    AAA
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    Jefferson is the one who I think about...
     
  6. chuck2336

    chuck2336
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    I think of Jefferson first.
     
  7. David Lamb

    David Lamb
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    I am sorry to say that, apart from Thomas Jefferson, I have not heard of any of the people listed. Are they all Americans?
     
  8. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
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    It's not really fair, because we American children have to study British history, but British children don't have to study American History... :laugh::laugh:

    O'Hair was the Jezebel almost solely responsible for persuading the courts of this land that we could not have the Bible or Prayer anywhere near our public shcools. her argument was based on a non-constitutional document by Jefferson mentioning the notion of the separation of church and state, but in a context of the state not having control over the operation of the churches. This idea was first propogated in the colonies by Roger Williams, who was exiled from his home by those Colonists for these ideas. He began the colony of Rhode Island. He was a Baptist, and held to a long-standing (according to some) distinctive of the Baptist heritage in this position.

    All the other names fit into the picture either before, after, or contemporary with those I mentioned. :laugh:
     
  9. David Lamb

    David Lamb
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    American history? At the age of 13 I had to choose between studying music, and studying history (any history). I chose music, so when it came to the lives of the composers, I had no historical background for them.

    Anyway, thanks for the info.
     
  10. Alcott

    Alcott
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    Yes.
    Hugo Black was the U.S. Supreme Court Justice who wrote an opinion in the late 40's that tried to comprehensively explain the practical meaning of government non-establishment of religion and free exercise of religion.
    James Dunn was a longtime president of the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs [now BJC on Religious Liberty] who is now retired from that position, but still lectures and writes on the subject with an aggressive style.
    John Leland was a Baptist minister in 18th and 19th century, strongly supportive of the concept that "the notion of a Christian Commonwealth should be forever exploded," as a summary of his thought.
    Barry Lynn is the Executive President of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. He is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ, frequently gives opinions and interviews in support of a 'strict separation' policy.
    James Madison was 4th President of the U.S.A. (following Jefferson, and considered Jefferson's protege), and the principle writer of the U.S. Constitution. As President he notedly opposed declaring 'Days of Prayer.'
    Michael Newdow, atheist, filed suit to keep his daughter's school, and all U.S. public schools, from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance to the U.S. flag as long as the Pledge contains the words, "...under God..." which were inserted in the Cold War era of 1954.
    Madalyn Murray O'Hair was founder of the American Atheist Associataion after her lawsuit to stop Bible readings in her son's public school was merged with a similar case and was successful. She was known for her rude and brash demeanor in promoting atheism and mocking belief in a deity, was accused of mishandling funds for her organization, and was murdered in 1995 (her death was a mystery until her body was found a few years later).
    Roger Williams was a colonist in early Massachussetts, was expelled from the colony for opposing the theocracy established by the colonial government there, and he fled and founded the new colony of Rhode Island, which proclaimed religious freedom for all. He was fanatical and undiplomatic, changing churches several times as they changed or new ones emerged; but he believed that any unifying of church and civil government would corrupt the church
     
  11. bobbyd

    bobbyd
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    in 2008 i think more of someone like Barry Lynn. Unfortunately those 5 words were taken out of context in a much larger statement made by Thomas Jefferson and has been made into something i don't think he ever inteded.
     

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