At odds about Christmas

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Onlybygrace, Nov 4, 2010.

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  1. Onlybygrace

    Onlybygrace
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    I know this topic has probably been raised before, but I really feel ambivalent about celebrating Christmas this year, especially because of its pagan roots and commercial emphasis. What are your opinions on why we should or shouldn't and is there an alternative way to celebrate while simultaneously not compromising?:saint:
     
  2. Tom Bryant

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    Understand your concern, but the names of the months and days of the week have their roots in paganism, but we still use them because we know longer think of the pagan beginnings. Christmas is obviously a commercial holiday but the celebration is about Jesus' birth. Make it about that. We don't have to give in to materialism to celebrate the real story.
     
  3. annsni

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    Christmas ends up being what you make of it. When you get sucked into the vortex of the commercialism and such, then it's easy to lose what should be the focus of the holiday. Instead, simplify your Christmas. Figure out what's important and keep that but ditch the rest. Speak to your family and figure out ways you can really focus on Christ this Christmas. My kids and I have adopted a family for Christmas and we will be spending part of our Christmas budget on them so we will then have less for ourselves and we're happy to do so. It's exciting to be able to bless another family who is very much in need this year. So think about what you can do to make sure that Christ is the center of your holiday.
     
  4. freeatlast

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    You did not mention if there are children or not and their ages. Also if there are what have you been doing in the past? This matters. To go cold turkey with children who have been part of the worldly side of the celebration in any degree could and most likely be a problem. You could sour them on Christianity. This time of year for the Christian should be a time and celebration of the birth of the Lord full of joy and blessings, not a time of burden and regret because of having to buy gifts for one another running up bills that takes months or even years to pay off. How many times have we heard someone say "I will be so glad when this is all over." How sad that is! It is a clear message that they are not doing what they are doing in the Lord. If celebrated this should be a birthday party for the Lord. Not an event where we are to ones who use the time to party and run wild.
    If there are children start be scaling it back year after year replacing it with family stories and personal time together and above all use the time to be together and focus on the birth of the Lord. Read the Christmas story aloud to all and make it exciting as it should be and make the time together a real family event celebrating the Gift that God has given mankind eating and playing together forming great memories for the future all based on the Gift that God has given to mankind.
    If there are no children and no grandchildren and you just want to do away with the event then that might work. You are free in the Lord to celebrate or not celebrate the day. You could use the time to meditate on the Lord or go hunting, or fishing or just do nothing if you like, but what ever you do, do all in the name of the Lord. God bless.
     
    #4 freeatlast, Nov 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2010
  5. Thinkingstuff

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    You should celeberate Christmas if you're in favor of uplifting a pagan god Mythras and hold to the astrological phenominon of observably more day light after the darkest day of the year. If you identify with the Roman civilization that made this day of Sol Invictus or the conquring sun a primary holiday for you. If you identify with the Catholic Church's pagan root of christianizing pagan holidays for their own benefit. If you want to give demons their place. Having your children Honor the Catholic Saint who perpertrated the Catholic Heresy of hiarchy resembling pagan priest.

    Don't feel bad about that.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    You must be kidding! You, in so many words, tell another that they will be following satan if they celebrate Christmas and you have Carl Sagan, a self professing agnostic, quotes as your signature who was a pagan in belief and a Jew that practiced nothing? Now that is hypocrisy!
     
  7. SBCPreacher

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    We don't celebrate the "day, we celebrate the birth of Jesus! December 25th is as good a day as any other for that celebration.

    We give gifts to each other to remind us and others of the Gift God gave us in Jesus Christ. I see no problem with that at all.

    Now, if the rest of the world chose to ignore what Christmas is all about and wants to make it a strictly secular holiday, that's their business (and their loss).
     
  8. Thinkingstuff

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    Are you telling me that Carl Sagan celebrated Sol Invictus or Christmas? How is that hypocracy?
     
  9. HankD

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    I'l make myself vulnerable to the critics and say I don't have a problem with Christmas celebration.

    As long as it is kept it in the context of the commemoration of the Incarnation and Virgin Birth of the
    Second Person of the Trinity and the Gospel of Salvation of Grace through Faith in Him and His Atonement.

    Also, folks are much more receptive at this time of the year to the message of salvation opening the door of opportunity to commuicate the gospel.


    HankD
     
  10. freeatlast

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    Here is one of the quotes you have as a signature.
    "For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan


    Mr. Sagan is saying that he would rather hold to the visible universe as his system of belief then he would to hold to some superstitious belief system about God and a creation in 6 days. The statement is a slanderous statement against not only those who believe in God, but against the God they believe in. This is the message you are sending in your signature and you tell someone else that Christmas is following satan? How is it that YOU are not spreading satan's lies by your signature of an unbeliever and his rejection of the God of creation yet you tell someone else that a celebration is of satan when the focus in on Christ? We have thousands of God given scriptures and you choose a pagan to use as part of a signature. Is that not hypocrisy?
     
    #10 freeatlast, Nov 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2010
  11. Thinkingstuff

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    First of all you over think the quote and take it personally. He basically is saying that he would rather believe in the universe as it presents itself in reality rather than rely on myth no matter how satisfying or reasurring that is. Its a general statement about all myth and science fact. For instance it could be taken that people seem somewhat comforted in Ghost. However, there not being any scientific evidence to suggest such a creature or existance I would rather not believe in them no matter how reassuring it is. You can take it as personally against your faith however, the statement is a generality and it happens to his honest observation. I like the quote because it speaks to a truth of things that often get replaced by religion. Like imagine what galileo had to deal with because he reaffiremed the possited idea that the solar system was heliocentric rather than geocentric. But because the bible refers in such away that the earth is the center of things the religious leaders of his day imprisoned him. The bible should not be taken as a science book it wasn't writen that way. Not with statements like the four corners of the earth etc... I really on it as a revelatory instrument of God to man. But not as a science book.
     
  12. rbell

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    A very reasonable, well-thought-out response.

    See my earlier quote? Well, celebrate "opposite day."
     
  13. freeatlast

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    The problem is that Mr. Sagan believes that all religion is a myth.
    He once said this;
    But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity."[

    Here is what his wife said about him after he died;
    When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me—it still sometimes happens—and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl

    Illusions? This is what Mr. Sagan called the belief in God and you are promoting his beliefs and then tell another they would be following satan by celebration the birth of Christ at Christmas. You tell me how YOU are not following satan by being his front person when you use Carl Sagan's beliefs as a signature?
     
  14. glfredrick

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    What is the name of the day, today? Thursday?

    Do you have a problem saying that name? What about Friday, Saturday, Sunday?

    All those day names have their roots in pagan worship. Such is our life in this sin-cursed world.

    Go and enjoy Christmas to the fullest extent, knowing that you are worshiping God by doing what He said, loving family and friends, and by spreading the gospel, which says very simply, that "when the fullness of time was complete, God sent His son into the world, born of a woman..."

    Oh, praise God. I'll set up the Christmas tree, decorate it, hand out gifts, wish others a merry Christmas, and PRAISE my Savior for coming into this world to save souls, mine included!

    As an aside, I still recall my first Christmas after becoming one of God's children. I was 27 years old that year. I accepted Christ on my own, with no real live person involved (via radio) and had no real idea about the extent of my salvation until Christmas time came. My soul literally exploded within me, and I SO identified with John the Baptist, who lept in Elizabeth's womb just for being in the presence of Messiah. Songs I sung by rote for almost 3 decades broke me to tears as I contemplated "God with us." What was once commercial and driven only by satisfied wants became an act of worship as I learned to apply God's love to those around me.

    I'll agree that all things are not right about our Christmas celebration. Even in the church, we've let a lot of purely secular stuff drive the holiday, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water just because some abuse things. Focus on God and His magnificent grace coming to us, and draw others into the celebration with you! Recall that "feast days" were ordained by God for both for remembering and for the pleasure of His people!
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

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    Carl Sagan is entitled to his beliefs about God or his disbeliefs about God. I support his statements in as far as they are true. Just because he didn't believe in God which we do doesn't mean he had nothing valuable to give or didn't see certain things clearly. I know Drug addicts and theives in jail who curse like sailors and have not changed their lives from this but they will assure you they are born again. It has become clear to me these people by their contrasting life style and statements about themselves are living in a reassuring "faith delusion". And cannot percieve life as it is. This is hypocracy. To say Carl Sagan because of his disbelief had nothing to offer is like the Catholic Clergy imprisoning Galileo for telling the truth of his observation. To me that is disingenuous and harms the Christian faith more than my supporting true assertions.
    Now as for christmas verses Sol invictus we are talking not about unbelief with belief but two belief systems. One obviously stolen from the other. Both therefore are lies. Sol Invictus because it is a pagan observance of the first noticeably longer light period than the darkest days of the year. Christmas because Jesus wasn't born on December 25th and that it is just a covering for a pagan incorporation. Both systems are based on a lie.
     
  16. percho

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    True we use them but I still wonder if that is the calender that God uses assuming that in the fullness of time he used a calender.
     
  17. percho

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    Great idea for loving your neighbor and the key word is budget

    God bless you.
     
  18. percho

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    They the pagans didn't celebrate a day either, I am not sure but I think if you check they were also celebrating a birth.

    Like I said I'm not positive about that.
     
  19. percho

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    Carl understood this: I see the stars,I hear the mighty thunder,Thy pow'r throughout The universe displayed,

    He just didn't know it came from here:My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art!

    See Romans 11:25.
     
  20. percho

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    He did not have the gravity to see the awesomeness of one who could make such a law.
    I'm not sure about this however the question was asked, Whose wife will she be.

    Maybe we should start a new thread, however was it because he didn't have or could not muster up enough faith or was it because God had not given him faith?
     
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