At what Point was Saul (Paul) Regenerated?

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by revmwc, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Acts 5:29-33; 7:51-8:1-8; Acts 9

    28 "Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them."

    The fledgling church is beginning and Peter and the apostles are boldly proclaiming the word of God. Brought before the council and the high priest. I wonder if Saul was among them, as he was later when Stephen spoke in
    Acts 7: 51 “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”
    Seems they resisted the Holy Spirit, they resisted the Grace of Salvation that God offers. Stephen was filled with the Holy Spirit and boldly proclaimed Christ and they stopped their ears,a conscious choice, they used their volition, they ran upon him with one accord, conscious choice, volition use, they stoned him and verse 8 says Saul was consenting.
    Peter proclaimed Christ earlier was Saul also there? In Acts 5 we see that they were cut to the heart in verse 33, they were under heavy conviction of the Holy Spirit, and yet they sought to kill them, conscious choice, volition used. The chose to be filled with sin instead of hearing and answering the call, they resisted, conscious choice, volition used to resist the Grace offered by the Holy Spirit. Now if Saul was at both events, and if we go by the belief that believers are regenerated before they believe, then was he regenerated at one of these points, killing and imprisoning believers until he believed on the road to Damascus or was he regenerated on the road to Damascus after saying Lord, Lord what must I do? At what point did the Convicting of the Holy Spirit take hold of Saul’s (Paul’s) life and bring to fruition his salvation?

    Here, Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." was he truly saved, believing and regenerated?

    Or was he regenerated first at one of the events in the early church with Peter or Stephen?

    I believe he was under conviction the whole time and when Jesus appeared he believed and was regenerated. So what say ye?
     
  2. percho

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    And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, [fn] who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. Acts 9:17,18

    Until that point in time he was double blind. IMO

    He at that moment received the Spirit of truth, the Spirit of adoption.
     
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  3. Greektim

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    Logically after he had been born from God did he believe... 1 Jn 5:1
     
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  4. revmwc

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    What about Biblically since 1 John 5:1 shows belief before regeneration then when did he believe?
     
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  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    The question is when did the regeneration occur?
     
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  6. percho

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    Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13

    I would think at that moment in bold, God took him from unbelief unto belief.
     
  7. SovereignGrace

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    At what point was Saul of Tarsus regenerated?

    It sure was NOT after he believed.
     
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  8. revmwc

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    That is correct. I believe he believed and was regenerated at the point of "6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do." Now some who believe regeneration occurs first the question is posed, at what point did that regeneration occur before he believed?
     
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  9. revmwc

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    So then at what point? When he consented to the stoning of Stephen when he heard the Gospel, and then he believed later? At what point did the renewal of the Spirit in Him occur, for regeneration is becoming spiritually alive so at what point did it occur?
     
  10. SovereignGrace

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    I would say he was regenerated the very moment the Light blinded him, knocking him off his ride...camel? Donkey?

    Paul asked "Who are you, Lord?" When Christ asked His Disciples who they thought He was Peter said. "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Christ then said “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."[Matthew 16:17]
     
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  11. Internet Theologian

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    Perhaps his kicking against the goads was the regenerating work already taking place. Irresistible grace to the elect of God. :)
     
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  12. revmwc

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    But he had already been resisting at the stoning of Stephen he stopped his ears and came upon Stephen even holding their cloaks.
     
  13. Greektim

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    I know... I was just having a bit of fun with the right reverend mwc.
     
  14. revmwc

    revmwc
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    At least you agree that I am right!
     
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  15. SovereignGrace

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    Uhhhhh...no. He does not agree with you.
     
  16. revmwc

    revmwc
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    He said the right reverend! LOL
     
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  17. revmwc

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    Wow and you can't seem to understand a pun or should the word be facetious, you and your friends can't tell a facetious statement when you see one.
     
  18. Greektim

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    OH! I see what you did there with "right". My fault. I retract.

    Shows my lack of exegesis skills too, I suppose. I deleted my post: reason given that I am a hypocritical @$$. Apology for the accusation when I was just as guilty of not understanding your humor.
     
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  19. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Apology accepted and it was all in fun
     
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  20. kyredneck

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    2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God. Jn 16

    4...Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
    5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? .... Acts 9

    Sounds like they had met before.
     

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