Atheists and Liberals better than evangelicals

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Mar 25, 2014.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/05/educational-levels-denomination/#.UzEj3YWa-BJ

    In the above article citing Christian Polling Organization, Barna Group, it appears that the more conservative you are in Christianity: the less educated you are, the greater your chances of committing a crime and getting divorced are.

    WHAT A SHAME!!!!

    SHAME ON US!!

    How terrible that those who claim most vociferously to believe the Bible are the stupidest and most immoral among all groups in America!!

    We have failed! We are not failing- we HAVE failed... miserably!!

    Most of our churches are not worth two cents.

    The more religious the state in America, the higher the divorce rate and the poorer educated it is. My state, Mississippi, is at the BOTTOM and I know why. I have been to enough churches in this state to know why Mississippi is so uneducated, so poor, so immoral (more crime, std's, divorce, etc...). It's wonderful to bring in people whose lives are a mess, but the Gospel is supposed to CHANGE that. If the church in the community is not changing the stats some after a while- it ought to close up shop.

    If your beliefs don't improve the quality of your marriage and don't enable you to provide a home in America where your kids grow up to be very intelligent, capable contributors to society then your beliefs are not worth two cents.

    Yes, I know there are exceptions. But we use the exceptions to excuse ourselves too easily. The fact is that generally speaking atheists lead more moral, more intelligent lives than most evangelicals.

    Our churches ought to discipline people whose healthy children are failing schools. F's on a healthy minded Christian's report card smear the name of Christ in America. Christians ought not be stupid if there is any other way. Atheists ought not be able to raise kids better than evangelical Christians.

    Our churches ought to discipline members who get divorces. Get down to the bottom of it and discipline whoever is responsible- usually both parties. Forgive and restore after the discipline if there is genuine repentance but don't skip discipline and jump ahead to restoration. There ought always to be repentance before restoration and time ought to pass between the two.

    A faith genuinely held by two married people that does not make them love each other more and more as time passes is not worth two cents.

    I honestly believe the death of conservative Christianity in America may be the best thing for real Christianity in America. And I am conservative. I believe the Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God but the sad thing is that most other people who claim to believe the same thing have a faith that cripples the rest of us from making inroads.

    3,500 churches are closing their doors every year in America. 9 churches every day close PERMANENTLY. That may be the best news we've heard in a while. The shedding of dead weight that is most evangelical churches in America will be a welcomed occurrence for genuine Christianity in America.
     
    #1 Luke2427, Mar 25, 2014
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  2. Revmitchell

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    First, the divorce rate among Christians being equal or higher than the rest of the world is a myth.

    http://www.christianity.com/11646360/

    What we will also discover is Barna often draws lose conclusions from his "polls".. He is part of the house church movement and looks to put the church in the worst possible light. It is his agenda.

    http://christianactionleague.org/news/debunking-the-christian-divorce-rate-myth/

    Second the article in the op is ecumenical in nature and comes from a very theological liberal mind set.

    It appears the author of the op just wanted a chance to rant.


    Are we sure Phelps passed away?

    Maybe there is a way the church can support families whose children are failing classes other than the worst possible scenario. Is it necessary to always default to discipline for everything? What will we be called to do next, picket funeral for dead soldiers? Start derogatory websites about homosexuals? Must the church always respond in such an extreme way? Are there no other alternatives? Or even, here is a thought, maybe it is none of our business if the children in our church are failing a class. Maybe we should let the parents parent their own kids and keep our nose out of where it does not belong.


    Apparently education does not guarantee intelligence. Just take a look at the op.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Mar 25, 2014
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    What horse manure this article is spreading. Rick, you cant be taking this seriously. It is amazing that you would even draw these conclusions. And for once I agree with Mitchell, why are you talking about church discipline? What's that going to do except alienate. God you just don't get it do you??
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Uh oh!

    For the record I believe in church discipline. But in a scriptural context unlike the op.
     
  5. JamesL

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    The OP is about the least interesting drivel I've read in two years.


    So we're supposed to be preaching that Jesus gives us money and edjumaction? Pure nonsense, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.


    1 Corinthians 1:18-31
    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    19 For it is written:

    I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
    And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.


    20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

    26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

    27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

    28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

    29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

    31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”


    I guess you think we should blame God? After all, HE is the One who chose the foolish and uneducated of this world, to HIS glory

    But you would rather glory in your education. Good job.

    You should post a picture of your credentials so everyone can applaud you, tell you how great and educated you are, and give you glory.
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Thank you....what he said.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Duh.....I forgot, you are the REVERAND.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    I have no idea what that means.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Exactly....and its not supprising me that you don't. LUKE suffers from the same malady. Outa curioucity, how long have you been working with alcoholics & do you see any psychological patterns (characteristics) common to all? Oh just forget it...it derails Luke's rant.
     
    #9 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 25, 2014
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  10. Revmitchell

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    Alrighty then. I will leave you to your misery.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    You think Im miserable....Ha Ha Ha. you missed your calling....you could have done a comedy act in the Village.:tongue3:
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Rick, Ive trying to explain to you that you really need to get out more & press the flesh with the people.....talk to them & get a sense of whats really going on. Do you do that or do you put credibility in the drivel you posted (with a clear & slanted agenda)?

    Again, what does Christ say in John 20:27? Are you so afraid to touch the flesh of God & of one another that you would ......ahhhhhh! Rick, What is God truly calling us into? Just tell me that.

    And I want you to know from a personal note that the only reason I am taking this time with you is I know your trying to make some sense of this all so your leaping to conclusions. Now I know where you got that non believer Atheist reference from that you gave me in another post last week. Believe me brother because I say this with all love for you as a brethren, do not put any credibility in any article that postures an Atheist above a Believer.......right then and there it was a biased & faulty study.
     
  13. InTheLight

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    Ahh...so you've just met Luke 2427.
     
  14. Luke2427

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    The article you cite here identifies as its criteria for "Christian" thus:


    The factor making the most difference is religious commitment and practice. Couples who regularly practice any combination of serious religious behaviors and attitudes -- attend church nearly every week, read their Bibles and spiritual materials regularly; pray privately and together; generally take their faith seriously, living not as perfect disciples, but serious disciples -- enjoy significantly lower divorce rates than mere church members, the general public and unbelievers.

    That's precisely what I am saying. Most members of most churches do not have any real commitment to Christ.

    That's the whole problem. That's the thing most churches are allowing. Most preachers are muzzled to preach against such a lack of commitment. Most churches wouldn't dare confront uncommitted members. So most churches have in attendance less than two third, many less than half what they have on their rolls.

    Your article PROVES my point. It calls for what I am calling for- REAL Christians to fill our churches.

    I do not disagree.


    Pew Poll supports this data.

    And?

    Low class. You're like those people who compare everybody they don't like to Hitler. I forget the name of that psychoses.

    YES!! That's what I am a calling for. That's why I keep saying most of our churches are not worth two cents. We don't help people with such things by and large.

    People who do not take advantage of the help, call themselves Christians and let their children do badly in school should not go unchallenged by the church. Providing for one's own means more than feeding them and sheltering them. We do that for our dogs.

    What a weird and far fetched analogy! The Hitler thing I mentioned above again.

    Extreme analogy- silly.

    I don't want people to report to the church what their kids grades are but two things:

    1. The atmosphere of the church ought to be such that one who let's his children do poorly in school and does not go to the church for help ought to feel very uncomfortable there.

    2. Usually bad grades cannot be hidden from the community and the church. Most people know what kind of grades most kids make.


    You are a very bitter person. Your personal problems with me are a spiritual problem for you. They really are.
     
    #14 Luke2427, Mar 25, 2014
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  15. Luke2427

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    You keep lecturing me about this "pressing the flesh" business and I keep telling you that I already do it.

    I helped over forty prisoners get their GED's last year.

    I offer after-school tutoring classes to children in our community.

    I have led our church to support our association's food bank monthly and I am trying to lead them to start our own.

    You keep lecturing me about the very thing that I am trying to tell everyone churches ought to be doing.


    I don't know what reference you are talking about. I have never read anything else this guy has written before in my life.

    But here's the thing, Steve. You don't go to church because in all of New Jersey there is not a church good enough for you. How many churches are there in New Jersey? A thousand?

    And not one of them is worth even ATTENDING!!

    And you tell me that people who claim to be believers in this country are better than atheists???

    Doesn't fly, Bud.
     
  16. Luke2427

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    And here is why the church is in such bad shape.

    It is full of people who think like this.

    People who do not know how to deal with Scripture (like the passage cited above) and spread their bad hermeneutics around.

    People who are insecure and feel the need to insult educated people.

    People who glory in ignorance.

    Atheists do not do that. That is my point.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    LOL ...yea of course not ....that's why they are atheists! They couldn't care less.
     
  18. Luke2427

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    Most atheists do care. Again, atheists are by and large better educated than church members BECAUSE they care about education.

    Atheists do not get divorced like church members BECAUSE they care more than church members about such things.

    I am not defending atheists. Atheists will perish for denying what is clearly evident- that God exists and deserves to be worshiped and adored.

    I am excoriating the American church. I am saying that by and large it is full of people who just attend to make themselves feel better about themselves- not to be molded into the image of Christ.
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Yea...there was a good one once...that one I belonged to. Then the guy died...everything went to crap.

    But you keep insisting that being a non believer is better than being a Christian....tell me how that washes.
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Here we agree.
     
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