Atonement ‘made’ …WHERE?

I quote Adam Clarke as follows -

Adam Clarke –
Verse 14. Unto two thousand and three hundred days
Though literally it be two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings. Yet I think the prophetic day should be understood here, as in other parts of this prophet, and must signify so many years. If we date these years from the vision of the he-goat, (Alexander's invading Asia,) this was A.M. 3670, B.C. 334; and two thousand three hundred years from that time

Then ... innexplicably Walter answers

Obviously Walter finds no text at all that calls the daily sacrifice the "evening and morning sacrifice". No not even one.


I also point to a number of Bible scholars that admit to the blatantly obvious fact that the evening morning terminology of Dan 8 signifies the DAY - as we find Genesis 1 stating that evening and morning is one day. Thus instead of 1150 days - they apply the correct evening morning terminology - as a single day - and so 2300 days not 1150 days.

John Gill

unto two thousand and three hundred days;
or so many "mornings" and "evenings" F8; which shows that not so many years, as Jacchiades, and others, are meant; but natural days, consisting of twenty four hours, and which make six years, three months, and eighteen days;


Quote:
Geneva Study Bible
8:14 And z he said unto me, Unto a two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
(z) Christ answered me for the comfort of the Church.
(a) That is, until so many natural days have passed, which make six years, and three and a half months:


Quote:
Matthew Henry
(2.) The answer given to this question, Daniel 8:14. Christ gives instruction to the holy angels, for they are our fellow-servants; but here the answer was given to Daniel, because for his sake the question was asked: He said unto me. God sometimes gives in great favours to his people, in answer to the enquiries and requests of their friends for them. Now, [1.] Christ assures him that the trouble shall end; it shall continue 2300 days and no longer, so many evenings and mornings (so the word is),


Adam Clarke simply adds one more step of consistency by applying the same "prophetic day" - in "day for year" fashion that almost all Bible scholars admit for 490 days (72 weeks) of Daniel 9.


in Christ,

Bob

 

This is the closest that you got to the definition of a temple, and its purpose Bob. Even then, it is not very concise is it?

 

Actually I discuss BOTH the function and purpose of the earthly temple AND the heavenly sanctuary in that post as follows

 

Your interpretation has zero basis for textual support and your authorities do not agree with your 2300 years intepretation.

Can't read English? Daniel 8:11-13 repeatedly calls it the "tamiyd" sacrifice and that is exactly the descriptive term used in Exodus for the evening and morning sacrifice. Can't get much plainer. On the other hand the hebrew structure in Daniel 8 "evening morning" is not once used for the ordinary day in Genesis.

 

Do you need another language to communicate in Bob? English doesn't do very well for you??
I didn't ask for a discussion, nor do I want one.
I simply asked for a definition, and a brief one at that. Be as concise as you can. We go around and around in circles. You honestly can't define in simple terms a "temple"? Unbelievable! My children can. But that is not surprising. What is, is that I have a grandchild old enough to define "temple" and you can't?

 

I quote Adam Clarke (not an SDA by the way) showing that even he uses the day for year principle in Dan 8 just as we all do in Dan 9 AND that he fully understand this to be 2300 years not 1150 years.

I also show other (non-SDA) Bible scholars refering to this period as 2300 days but then failing to consitently apply the Dan9 day for year principle.

So how does Walter defend his 1150 day claim?

1. They do NOT divide 2300 in half - but rather accept it as 2300 days thus admitting to the "evening and morning" as a day.

2. And Adam Clarke ALSO applies it as 2300 years using the same method as Dan 9!!

This is the easy part.

Dan 8:14 does NOT say "for taymid 2300" or "for 2300 taymid".

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob

 

What you call their failure to be consistent is agreement with my position rather than with yours.

That is precisely why I said "OR" which is admission that there were only two possible ways to be consistent with the "days" rather than 2300 year theory.

This is an absolute cop out! Daniel is so clear and so explicit that this vision concerns and is in regard to the "tamiyd" and "tamiyd" is inseperably linked with "sacrifice."

by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Nothing could be spelled out any clearer, any more simpler, any more straight forward, any more explicit "How long shall be THE VISION CNCERNING THE TAMIYD SACRIFICE"?

The point remains unscathed, untouched, and unassailable!

 

This post was made on January 5. To this date neither Scriptmemory nor Bob Ryan have been able to give a simple answer to it. That does demonstrate something wrong about their theology one would think.

 

Those who think the Bible has nothing to say about the Temple of God in heaven or on earth are destined to be dissappointed when they turn from scripture seeking only the words of man to guide them.

in Christ,

Bob

 

On the contrary - you insist that Dan 8:14 is 1150 days. All of the examples I gave show non-SDA Bible scholars agreeing that this is 2300 days - where evening and morning are in fact a reference to "one day".

How is this agreeing with your position?

By going to the 2300 day or 2300 day-for-a-year choice you are stepping near to the real debate.

Then in that case - the only question is whether to consistently apply the prophetic day for a year principle in Dan 7,8,9,12 as Adam Clarke does - or to apply it haphazardly picking and choosing one way in one chapter - and another way elsewhere.

I prefer the consistent solution.

While it is true that the little horn is doing damage - the question is - damage to what. In the dark ages the papacy clearly replaces the work of Christ as our High Priest in the Holy Place (daily service) of the heavenly sanctuary with the Mass.

And in the Dan 8:14 solution that maps to the same Dan 7:22 solution - the judgment of God in the antitypical day of Atonement (the Cleansing of the Sanctuary Lev 16) is the event that the 2300 year timeline points toward.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Because the "tamiyd" consists of two sacrifices in a given day - the morning and evening of that day. Hence, 2300 evening morning sacrifices.

Again the evidence is so clear and so explicit that one must shut their eyes to the following contextual facts and the most significant is that the very question of "HOW LONG" which verse 14 is a direct response to is connected FIRST to:


How long shall be the vision concerning the daily [Tamiyd] sacrifice,


How Long shall be WHAT? the "tamiyd"!!!


What is the "tamiyd"????? It is the "tamiyd" SACRIFICE!

Daniel 8:14 is the direct response to this question with the answer 2300 evening morning! Evening morning what? TAMIYD SACRICE!


This is so clear and explicit that only another agenda forced into this context by you and other expositors ignores it!


I guarantee that Bob will not deal with the evidence I give above but will simply PARROT his SDA dogma.

 

The Bible has plenty to say about temples. But you don't. You can't even define what one is. You show your ignorance by quoting a verse that has the word "temple" in it, but you don't know what the word means, therefore you hide behind the verse. You display an amazing ignorance in defining a temple and its purpose.

 

It is left as an exercise for the reader to CLICK the link

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1631678&postcount=180

and SEE if it is true that I said nothing there about BOTH the Earthly and Heavenly sanctuaries identifying functions for each of them.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Actually "quoting you " is sufficient to debunk that argument above.

Dan 8:14 is the one that actually mentions the 2300 evening mornings (2300 days).

"Unto 2300 evenings and mornings and then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" -- pointing to the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary as central to the Day of Atonement antitype service in heaven with Christ as our High Priest.

Dan 8:14 It is the text you are carefully AVOIDING in your discussion above as you try to wrench the text into saying 2300 tamiyd -- which obviously it does NOT say!

You have pinned your entire argument on a fictional idea that Dan 8:14 speaks about 2300 taymid (dailys). It says no such thing! So you limit your Bible quote to Dan 8:13 while trying to make your case about Dan 8:14.

Once you go that far down the wrong road - you make this a little too easy for me.

Dan 8:13 identifies activity being done by the little horn power (Pagan Rome followed by Papal Rome) during part of that 2300 year timeline. It speaks to the fact that the Sanctuary function in antitype - that is indicated by the HOLY place - DAILY service of the earthly sanctuary would be attacked, covered with error - by the persecuting little horn power of Dan 8. And sure enough the Mass was designed to replace the Priestly work of Christ during his Daily "Holyl Place" ministry in Heaven - by directing Christians to an earthly priest and an earthly sacrifice INSTEAD.

in Christ,

Bob

 

If that is your answer Bob, you are wrong and incapable of forming a simple definition of "temple," and give a simple statement of the purpose of one (as in a few words or even one sentence). How can you discuss something that you are totally ignorant of. Since January 5 you have been unable to give an answer that most Christian children can easily answer.