AV1611 Translator Sidenotes 2: Matthew

Ed Edwards · Feb 28, 2004

Sometimes the Apocrypha is interesting in the
KJV1611

Ecclefiafticus VIII:4 (KJV1611):

Iest not with a rude man,
lest thy ancestours be disgraced.

Ed Edwards · Feb 28, 2004

S.Matthew X:16 (KJV1611):

Behold, I send you foorth as
sheepe in the middest of wolues : be yee
therefore wise as serpents, and
||harmelesse as doues.

Sidenote: || Or, simple.

S.Matthew X:16 (KJV1611alt):

Behold, I send you foorth as
sheepe in the middest of wolues : be yee
therefore wise as serpents, and
simple as doues.

Fortunately this is oneof those terms
that would NOT still carry the original
message. For back in 1611 "simple" meant
unencombered with ploting ways
but now "simple" means developmentally
challenged.

Matthew 10:16 (KJV1769):

Behold, I send you forth as
sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye
therefore wise as serpents, and
harmless as doves.

Matthew 10:16 (nKJV):

Behold, I send you out as sheep
in the midst of wolves. Therefore
be wise as serpents and
harmless as doves.

Matthew 10:16 (NLT):

Look, I am sending you out as sheep
among wolves.
Be as wary as snakes and
harmless as doves

Note this MV clarifies "wise" to "wary"
and leaves "harmless" the same.

Matthew 10:16 (NCV = New Century Version):

Listen, I am sending you out like sheep
among wolves.
So be as smart as snakes
and as innocent as doves.

The NCV clarifies both terms.
Note the use here in the Bible of Jesus
using a Similie specified by "as" or "like".
Jesus is comparing a key quality of the
animals mentioned that the disciples are to have.

Nicolas · Feb 28, 2004

thanks for the info. I always wondered about that interior "s" from reading the "New England Primer".

Ed Edwards · Feb 28, 2004

You are quite welcome Bro. Nicolas. May
God's best blessings flow unto you
this very day and unto
your family, and unto your studies. Amen!

Ed Edwards · Feb 29, 2004

S.Matthew X:23 (KJV1611):

But when they persecute you in
this citie, flee ye into another : for verely
I say vnto you, ye shall not ||haue gone
ouer the cities of Israel, till the Sonne
of man be come.

Sidenote: ||Or, end or finish.

S.Matthew X:23 (KJV1611alt1):

But when they persecute you in
this citie, flee ye into another : for verely
I say vnto you, ye shall not end
the cities of Israel, till the Sonne
of man be come.

S.Matthew X:23 (KJV1611alt2):

But when they persecute you in
this citie, flee ye into another : for verely
I say vnto you, ye shall not finish
the cities of Israel, till the Sonne
of man be come.

None of the modern versions vary significanly
from the three versions given here in
the KJV1611.

michelle · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Ed,

--------------------------------------------------
Ed quoted:

In fact, the sources vary: some include it, some do not
include it. The NIV is honest and allows the reader
to judge. The KJV is deceptive and does NOT give this
information hiding it from the reader like the Catholics
used to do.
--------------------------------------------------

When does God allow us to judge whether he said something or not? Furthermore, putting God's word in a "footnote" only puts doubt (stumblingblock) in the minds of God's people, to question whether or not God has said this (sounds like the serpent in the garden - Yea, hath God said). This is strictly forbidden in the scriptures.

May the Lord richly bless you all.

love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord,
michelle

michelle · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Ed,

--------------------------------------------------
Ed quoted:

But i do know that your KJVO#4 and $5 folk nearly
all subscribe to the Doctrine of Ignorance as well.
The Doctrine of Ignorance says it is more Godly to
to be ignorant than to be educated (for education
is of the Lead Deamon. BTW, then "Dr" stands
for Demons Reign ). So, if it is more Godly to
be ignorant than educated, you have to have that
the Holy Spirit selectes the translator's words,
not the translator themselves.
--------------------------------------------------

Someone can be educated and KNOW THE LORD OUR GOD, but someone who is ONLY EDUCATED WITHOUT GOD, is the problem.

love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
michelle

rsr · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

When does God allow us to judge whether he said something or not? Furthermore, putting God's word in a "footnote" only puts doubt (stumblingblock) in the minds of God's people, to question whether or not God has said this (sounds like the serpent in the garden - Yea, hath God said). This is strictly forbidden in the scriptures.
Click to expand...

Well, michelle, all we have to go on is the texts. Some say one thing, others say another. It would be dishonest not to relate other readings. The AV translators, to their credit, provided alternatives.

May the Lord richly bless you all.

michelle · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Dr. Bob,

--------------------------------------------------
Dr. Bob quoted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep sharing the truth, Ed. When detractors and part of the only sect throw strings of verses at you (never have figured that one out) rather than deal with each issue, it gets wearisome.
--------------------------------------------------

It might do you well to read the following scripture to "figure out" why scripture is quoted here on the christian baptist boards (it is quite relevent):

2 Timothy 3:14-17

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them,
15 And that from a child thou hast known the SCRIPTURES, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto all good works. (my emphasis)

It might also do you well to read all of 2 Timothy chapter 3 for even better understanding.

Now do you understand? Or is this sweetness as bitter syrup to you yet again?

May the Lord richly bless you with knowledge and understanding HIS truth.

Love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
michelle

rsr · Mar 1, 2004

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

michelle · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

rsr,

Your version does not give the reader the understanding that it "thoroughly" equipps the believer unto "all" good works. I guess it is appropriately translated for your version, as you are not being THOROUGHLY equipped, unto ALL good works. You are only competently equipped for every good work. You are only being sufficiently or adequately equipped, if you believe what your version says. I would rather believe that I am THOROUGHLY EQUIPPED. The words "thoroughly" and "all" give the more full intended meaning in this verse. The verse from your version has watered down the intended meaning of assuredness and abundance of what God is promising for those who believe the message of this passage.

love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
michelle

rsr · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

You, however, must continue in the things you have learned and are confident about. You know who taught you and how from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work.

love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
rsr

Ed Edwards · Mar 1, 2004

Originally posted by michelle:
rsr,

Your version does not give the reader the understanding that it "thoroughly" equipps the believer unto "all" good works. I guess it is appropriately translated for your version, as you are not being THOROUGHLY equipped, unto ALL good works. You are only competently equipped for every good work. You are only being sufficiently or adequately equipped, if you believe what your version says.
Click to expand...

Tee hee, what a laugh. Or should I cry?

IF one would read one's says one reads,
one would see the truth here. Instead shown
here is the LIE that such persons live.

Here is the verse quoted from the KJV:
2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may
be perfect, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED unto
all good works.

Here is the modern version Rsr quoted:
2 Timothy 3:17 that the man of God may
be competent, equipped for every good work.

I note that anyone with their mind still
engaged can see that "all good works"
and "every good work" have the same meaning.
While "works" appears plural, "work" is
also a plural noun. "All" here means
each member of the given set; "every" means
each member of the given set.

But the other disagreement is IN THE
KING JAMES VERSION in the translater
footnote. I.E. the error in understanding
would never have been seen IF ONE USED
THE RIGHT KJV, namely the KJV1611
(though the KJV1769 that i use on-line
also has the footnotes

II.Timothie III:17 (KJV1611):
That the man of God may be perfect,
||throughly firnished vnto all good
workes.

Sidenote: ||or perfected.

II.Timothie III:17 (KJV1611alt):
That the man of God may be perfect,
perfected vnto all good
workes.

michelle · Mar 1, 2004

Peace and love to you in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Ed quoted:

I note that anyone with their mind still
engaged can see that "all good works"
and "every good work" have the same meaning.
While "works" appears plural, "work" is
also a plural noun. "All" here means
each member of the given set; "every" means
each member of the given set.

--------------------------------------------------

I knew this would be the typical response for those who enjoy the watered down versions of God's pure and powerful word. So, now let us make a personal determination of which word more effectively and powerfully gives the intended meaning - which was my point (I did not say they didn't have similiar meanings).

thorough: 1. done or proceeding through to the end 2. absolute 3. very exact, accurate, or painstaking.

competent: 1. capable; fit 2. sufficient, adequate 3. having legal competence

all: 1. the whole quantity of (all the gold)2. every one of 3. the greatest possible (in all sincerity) 4. any (beyond all doubt)5. alone; only (all work and no play)- pron. 1 . (with pl vb.)everyone 2. everything 3. every part or bit - n. 1. one's whole property, effort, etc.(gave his all) 2. a totallity; whole - adv. 1. wholly; entirely (all worn out)2. apiece (a score of two all)

every: 1. each, individually and separately 2. the greatest possible (to make every effort) 3. each interval ( take a pill every three hours)

Now please be honest with yourself and see which words give the most powerful and assuring meaning. I choose the more powerful because I know and believe that God is able to give me above and beyond what is sufficient and to do it absolutely.

Love in Jesus Christ our Faithful Lord and Saviour,
michelle

RaptureReady · Mar 1, 2004

Originally posted by Orvie:
"I would say the first choice was the Holy Spirit moving inside the translators and the second was man's opinion, which I count for nothing against the Holy Spirit..."
HomeBound,define what you mean by this...are you saying the AV translators were inspired? if not, what do you mean? Just a honest question.
Click to expand...

I know that the KJB translators did not claim to be inspired, but I believe that God used these men to preserve his word without errors.

Ed Edwards · Mar 1, 2004

Originally posted by HomeBound:
I know that the KJB translators did not claim to be inspired, but I believe that God used these men to preserve his word without errors.
Click to expand...

Amen, Brother HomeBound -- Preach it!

Likewise Peterson, Williams, actual Baptist
persons who helped translate the NIV.
Recall the KJV1611 translators were to a
man Church of England (CoE) baby sprinklers.

RaptureReady · Mar 1, 2004

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
I know that the KJB translators did not claim to be inspired, but I believe that God used these men to preserve his word without errors.
Click to expand...

Amen, Brother HomeBound -- Preach it!

Likewise Peterson, Williams, actual Baptist
persons who helped translate the NIV.
Recall the KJV1611 translators were to a
man Church of England (CoE) baby sprinklers.

</font>[/QUOTE]Now this is were I disagree. I don't believe the NIV people to be moved by God. Why would he? God's word was complete in 1611.

Ed Edwards · Mar 1, 2004

One dimentional approach:
use the KJV MV 1769 text only

Two dimentional approach:
use the REAL KJV 1611 AV and use
the footnotes as well as the text

Three dimentional approach:
Several versions including one
of the KJVs, compare the terms used
with a good dictionary.

Note any method of Bible study
is valid only if:
1. you bring your brain with you
2. you meet the Holy Spirit there.

Ed Edwards · Mar 1, 2004

Originally posted by HomeBound:
God's word was complete in 1611.
Click to expand...

I believe that God's word is
complete in every generation in the language
that most people can benefit from.
God never changes, His word was complete in
in the first century, His word is complete
in the 21st century. The KJV1611 was
the written word of God for the 17th century
(which actulally used the Geneva Bible, but
that is another point )

BTW, if the word of God was complete
in the KJV1611, how come KJBOs use
the KJV1769 to a fault???

Ed Edwards · Mar 1, 2004

S.Matthew XI:12 (KJV1611):
And from the dayes of Iohn the
Baptist, vntill now, the kingdome of
heauen ||suffereth violence, and
the violent take it by force.

||OR, is gotten by force, and they
that thrust men

S.Matthew XI:12 (KJV1611alt):
And from the dayes of Iohn the
Baptist, vntill now, the kingdome of
heauen is gotten by force, and they
that thrust men.

Matthew 11:12 (TMB = Third Millinnium Bible):
And from the days of John the
Baptist until now, the Kingdom of
Heaven suffereth violence, and
the violent take it by force.

Matthew 11:12 (The Message):
For a long time now people have tried
to force themselves into God's kingdom.

Matthew 11:12(Young's Literal Translation):
And, from the days of John the
Baptist till now, the reign
of the heavens doth suffer violence, and
violent men do take it by force,

Matthew 11:12 (ASV):
And from the days of John the
Baptist until now the kingdom of
heaven suffereth violence, and
men of violence take it by force.

AV1611 Translator Sidenotes 2: Matthew

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Nicolas New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

michelle New Member

michelle New Member

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator

michelle New Member

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator

michelle New Member

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

michelle New Member

RaptureReady New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

RaptureReady New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Useful Searches

AV1611 Translator Sidenotes 2: Matthew

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Nicolas New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

michelle New Member

michelle New Member

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b> Moderator

michelle New Member

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b> Moderator

michelle New Member

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b> Moderator

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

michelle New Member

RaptureReady New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

RaptureReady New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator

rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
Moderator