Babies are righteous?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by reformedbeliever, Apr 11, 2007.

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  1. reformedbeliever

    reformedbeliever
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    Read Genesis 18 and 19. Do you not suppose that in all of Sodom or Gomorrah there were more than ten babies in all the cities?
    If God destroyed all of Sodom and Gomorrah because not ten righteous could be found, it seems as if He found not righteousness in the young children and babies. Or do you suppose there were no young children and babies?
    How about the flood? Why were the innocent babies and young children not brought onto the ark?
     
  2. Martin

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    ==That is a very interesting question and one that I have never spent much time thinking about. As far as I can recall we are not told that there were, or were not, children in Sodom. However let's keep in mind that Scripture says that all of us are born in sin. We are sinners from the start. Therefore God would be just in bringing temporal judgment on anyone He wishes. As for the eternal destiny of those who die in infancy, well, I think they do enter heaven (no matter who their parents are). However that does not exempt them from temporal judgments just like Christians are subject to temporal judgments.

    I think one of the best books on this subject is John MacArthur's little book "Safe In The Arms of God".


    ==Or maybe God was restricting His condition to righteous adults? I don't know just brainstorming.

    ==Your question starts with a false premise. There is none righteous, says Paul, no not one. There are no truly innocent people no matter how young or old they are. While infants may not have willfully sinned "yet" their nature is sinful and they are born spiritually dead. Therefore they are not technically innocent.

    I am sure that many babies died in the flood since it was global. However those babies went into the presence of God after their death.
     
  3. reformedbeliever

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    I agree completely Martin. This is for those who seem to think that babies are innocent and born that way. Thanks.
     
  4. reformedbeliever

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    I want to believe this too. If it is true, it is only by God's sovereign grace that it is true.
     
  5. webdog

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    I think, first, you need to define righteous. Further, I think you need to define what Abraham was referring to when he asked for the city to be spared. It's a given (and was a given under the law) that infants are not innocent...but they are found not guilty in God's eyes. What animal sacrifice was required under the law for a child to bring? Christ tasted death for ALL...infants included. Their sin was atoned for. Numerous Scriptures showing that the Augustinian view of sin guilt passed on to us from Adam is false.

    Righteous
    RIGHTEOUS, a. ri'chus.
    1. Just; according to the divine law. Applied to persons, it denotes one who is holy in heart, and observant of the divine commands in practice; as a righteous man. Applied to things, it denotes consonant (agreeing) to the divine will or to justice; as a righteous act. It is used chiefly in theology, and applied to God, to his testimonies and to his saints.
    The righteous, in Scripture, denote the servants of God, the saints.
    2. Just; equitable; merited.
    And I thy righteous doom will bless.
     
  6. webdog

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    How can you say that these babies went to be with the Lord...but the babies in S&G didn't? That's kind of contradictory, don't you think?
    Bingo :thumbs:
     
  7. russell55

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    I was just thinking the same thing about Sodom and Gomorrah yesterday.
    1. God said he would not destroy them if there were ten righteous people.
    2. God destroyed the them.
    3. Therefore there were not ten righteous people.
    The logic is pretty airtight. If babies are righteous and there were ten of more of them, Sodom and Gomorrah would not have been destroyed.
     
  8. reformedbeliever

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    Web, I don't think Martin made a distinction when he said he felt all babies go to heaven. He was saying all including those in Sodom and Gomorrah.
     
  9. russell55

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    Being found not guilty in God's eyes is the same thing as being justified or declared righteous in God's eyes.

    If there were 10 infants in Sodom and Gomorrah found not guilty in God's eyes, then there were 10 infants that God saw as righteous, and he would not have destroyed the cities, according to his promise to Abraham.
     
  10. webdog

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    I'll post this again. Please show how this can apply to an infant, particularly the bolded. As Martin pointed out, adults within S&G were clearly those in reference to being righteous, as under the law, it was a given that infants were already God's.


    Righteous
    RIGHTEOUS, a. ri'chus.
    1. Just; according to the divine law. Applied to persons, it denotes one who is holy in heart, and observant of the divine commands in practice; as a righteous man. Applied to things, it denotes consonant (agreeing) to the divine will or to justice; as a righteous act. It is used chiefly in theology, and applied to God, to his testimonies and to his saints.
    The righteous, in Scripture, denote the servants of God, the saints.
    2. Just; equitable; merited.
    And I thy righteous doom will bless.
     
  11. reformedbeliever

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    I define righteous and absolute perfection. We are not righteous on our own but only by the shed blood of Christ and the justification (being made right) by the imputation of HIs righteousness.
    There are none who are holy in heart.... including children. We are short of perfection even in infancy or in the womb. If not, why all the babies who have birth defects?
    Our righteousness is as filthy rags.
     
  12. Martin

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    ==I did not say that the babies at Sodom did not go into the presence of the Lord. Maybe you should re-read my comments?
     
  13. webdog

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    If righteousness was defined as absolute perfection, RB, there would be nobody in Heaven.
    How do these verses fit into this discussion?
    Jam 1:14 But each person is tempted when he is drawn away and enticed by his own evil desires.
    Jam 1:15 Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death.
     
  14. webdog

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    Sorry, I got thrown with the "temporal judgment" statements, which brings up and entire new line of questioning...maybe for another thread. That sure sounds like the doctrine of purgatory to me :confused:
     
  15. reformedbeliever

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    You are right about that except for the imputed righteousnes we have through faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. I'm now justified (made right or righteous) by His blood.
     
  16. russell55

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    Can't be only the adults, because one of the points of the exchange between Abraham and God is that God doesn't put to death the righteous with the wicked.
    If the infants of S and G were put to death along with the wicked adults, then they were wicked, too, or God wouldn't be just.
     
  17. russell55

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    No, because people go to heaven based on Christ's righteousness, not their own. Christ's righteousness is absolute perfection.
     
  18. Martin

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    ==No purgatory. Temporal judgments are things suffered in this life. A good example of Christians under temporal judgment might be the folks in 1Cor. 11 who had gotten sick and died because of their abuse of the Lord's Supper.
     
  19. webdog

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    ...as are infants and the MRDD.
     
  20. webdog

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    Agreed 100%. Infants and the Mr/DD are people too, and the Bible tells me that Christ tasted death for ALL, them included.
     
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