Baby dedication (or baptism) for unwed mothers

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Apr 12, 2004.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    The idea for this was started in the "Baptist only" section, but I thought it might be interesting to get a variety of viewpoints from others than just Baptists.

    originally quoted by GODzThunder

     
  2. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think to make such a dedication is farsical. In the Old testament, the dedication, the circumcision, was an offering to God in faith and belief. In the church, we are not dedicating the child, as such, but the parents are dedicating themselves to bring up that child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

    I would not conduct the service, but would take the opportunity to counsel the parents (?).

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The baby dedication should go on. If you choose to only have the mother participate - fine.

    But the value of the baby remains and the importance of raising the child remains. Not having the father participate is 'enough' of a signal that you do not approve of the family structure.

    However - your arguments seems to be that God is married to the local magistrate and if the legal document is not signed in the courthouse then God does not recognize the family. Rather it is "more the case" that God does recognize the family and their being foolish enough not to have their marriage recognized by the state does not obligate them "any less" to what God holds them accountable for.

    If they should decide tomorrow to go their separate ways - it is "divorce" and God would dissapprove the same.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Since the mother continues to live in sin, I would refuse the dedication. A Baby Dedication is a profession before the church that'll you'll raise the child in a godly home and instruct them in the ways of the Lord. Living in sin proves that you have NO intention of doing either.

    I did have the husband of my friend call a baby in our old church a 'ba$+ard because his mother didn't marry the father. He said it while standing near the grandchild we adopted as our own child.... and it hurt me quite a bit. I never said anything to him and didn't tell my husband he said it. That would ruin their friendship. The child isn't the sinner... the parents are!

    Diane
     
  5. frozencell

    frozencell
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    It's not the child's fault that the mom isn't married. Why not dedicate the baby?
     
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    The dedication is NOT for the baby but the parents dedicating themselves to raise the child in a Christian home and up in the Lord. Our church ceremony is quite specific and will dedicate the child of an unwed mother who is NOT continuing to live in sin.

    Diane
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    Thats exactly how we handle it in our little church here. We make it clear that it is really a "parent dedication."
     
  8. Living4Him

    Living4Him
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't believe that a person would call a child a ba$+ard. If you think about it there are no ba$+ard children as God is the Father of us all, regardless of the situation in which the child was conceived.

    I don't see anything wrong with the child being dedicated. A baby dedication should be that of a sign that the parents or mother in this case is giving the child back to God. God is the giver of life and while we may not agree with the way this child was conceived, God still has a plan for this mother and child, and He is the one that allowed this child to come into the world. Therefore, the baby dedication signifies that the mother realizes that God gave her this child and she is giving the child back to God. She also is stating that she will instruct her child about God's love and the sacrafice that He made for our sins.

    Although this mother is living in sin, she needs everyone's prayers and concerns. Why is she living with this man? Could it be that she was kicked out of her house because she was pregnant? Perhaps people in the church should help this new mother out so that she would have more options available than living with the baby's father. Also, she shouldn't be forced to marry this man.
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    No child should ever be called that name in this day and age.

    I disagree though that the dedication should go though. I mom who is living (and having physical relations) with a man outside of marriage cannot dedicate herself to raising the child for the Lord when she is living in such open sin.

    Seh does need prayers, love, and compassion, but that does not excuse what, imho, amounts to condoning her sin.
     
  10. TP

    TP
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Greetings,

    Who ever invented baby dedicating? That must be New. I think people want baby dedicating because so many people are becoming baptist from traditions with infant baptism, and you have to do something at that time to have a party.

    peace
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,178
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know it is not right for couples to remain unmarried and to live together. They should, as Christians, (and non-christians) get married publicly.

    I believe the couple is married in the eyes of the Lord when they consummate their friendship when uniting physically. The man and woman should marry in the church. We are living in a new day and I had this exact situation while not officially pastoring a congregation.

    I explained the meaning behind the baptism of a baby in the church. The purpose is so that the Elders and the parents will be able to guide this little one in the ways of Christ. Whether {dedication or baptism} I believed that it would be infinitely better to leave a 'good taste in the mouth of the parents' rather than for them to forever after, condemn the church as not meeting their needs, and not showing any love for their baby. Satan can use this kind of wedge to divide and conquer the souls of the lost, so they will never enter the doors of a Christian church.

    Zwingli once said something to the effect that the baptism of a baby can be an incentive in later life, so that the once baby/now adult will return to his or her first spiritual roots of some kind of spiritual identification with Christ and the church.

    No pastor whether 'dedicating or baptizing' can 100% guarantee that that couple will stay with your church or even ever go to another one. We have to leave all things in the area of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the adult persons. God is faithful!

    Those who have been refused 'dedication' in the church will point back to usually the older saints as Pharisical. Many of those saints/people were not virgins when they stood before the altar of the Lord to get married publicly.
     
  12. music4Him

    music4Him
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    TP asked where baby dedication came from? I thought maybe that baby dedicating came from 1Sam. Chapter 1. Hannah in v.11 says that if she has a man child she would "give him unto the Lord all the days of his life." Now after Samuel was born v.19-28 Hannah brought him to Eli the priest to raise? What do ya'll think?
     
  13. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Party? What party? In my church, I don't remember hearing of folks having a party when a baby was dedicated. I didn't throw a party when my daughter was dedicated - it never entered my mind. Nor for a baptism, either.

    So you're partly right, TP, those who do have parties after these events are coming from other traditions and don't really understand the significance of the events. Like the ads at the bottom of this screen for "Christening Gifts" and "Baptism and Communion Favors."
     
  14. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    It would depend on the why of it.
    If the parents consider themselves married, present themselves as such, but simply lack the public definition of marriage (being condoned by the government and it's little piece of paper saying so) then I'd not consider them to be living in sin.
    If you take issue with that then give them a paperless ceremony to make yourself feel better about it.
    If they do think they are living in sin and haven't made a commitment between themselves and God to be husband and wife then don't perform the ceremony as they're already not dedicated to raising this child in a proper home.
    Gina
     
  15. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Gina said: simply lack the public definition of marriage (being condoned by the government and it's little piece of paper saying so) then I'd not consider them to be living in sin.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Gina, I think this would appear to condone promiscuity if we were to dedicate a baby born to a couple that is not legally married and continuing to live together and would send a bad message to the unmarried. I would not consider these people married.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ray said: I believe the couple is married in the eyes of the Lord when they consummate their friendship when uniting physically.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ray, if we believe this is true then you're married to the very first person you have sex with. (In my case, my husband.) Marriage calls for leaving and cleaving, a choice to become one for eternity and not just sex. There's a lot more to marriage than a physical act.

    Just my thoughts for today! [​IMG]
    Diane
     
  16. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Then we simply disagree Diane. I don't believe in the government having the authority to tell me I'm married or divorced. As far as government taxes or benefits that require one to be married by the government, that's the government's right and decision to say yes or no to and right now they say one must be married by the government to file as married etc., but IMO they have no right or authority to tell someone they're married or not married in God's eyes.
    Gina
     
  17. music4Him

    music4Him
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    0
    Diane and Gina,
    Bibically the bible doesn't state you have to have a letter of marraige only divorcement. Most places where people were joined was called "knowing" them. Gen.4:1 Adan knew Eve, Gen.4:17 Cain knew his wife, and then theres Isacc, he brought Rebekah into his mothers tent and "took" her in Gen.24:67. :ekk: (Where else could he take her if they were already inside the tent? LOL) [​IMG]
    But today I see so many people going from one relationship to another and its so sad. :( My question is exsactly when did the letter of marriage start and why? Was it so people could keep record of how many partners they have had? It boggles the mind don't it? Also if we told young aldults (and some older ones) that each [email protected] partner they have they are married to... they would look at us like we're crazy. But in John 4:1-26 where Jesus witnesses to the woman at the the well with the five husbands the she was the wife to none?
    I hope that the young woman can get the baby dedicated to the Lord, because if she is willing to put the child in the Lord's hands then maybe there is hope for her also. I also belive that the Lord will make a way for the child to grow up in a christian setting. JMOHO

    [​IMG] Music4Him
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Indeed, the baby dedication (or baptism, if it's in a church with practices infant baptism) should go on. However, I think that both the mother and father need to be present. The fact that they're living together without being married needs to be addressed, but not in conjunction with the baby.s dedication. That's a comletely separate issue.
     
  19. HisMercy

    HisMercy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Taking a shower only cleans the outside of a person. The inside is cleansed by the word of God.
     
  20. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    I think that is a very delicate situation. Personally I would tell the lady that I would like to talk with both of the parents at the same time in my office to talk about what that means. Then explain what a baby dedication means in the eyes of God and others.

    It means that the parents are dedicating the baby to God and agreeing to raise the child in accordance with God's standards as set forth in scripture. That starts with the example the parents live out in their daily lives. It means that the parents dedicate themselves to God first.
     

Share This Page

Loading...