back to the basics

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by gekko, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. gekko

    gekko
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    2,030
    Likes Received:
    0
    hey all.

    what are the basics of christianity according to scripture?

    this is how my atheist friend views it:

    thanks.
    God bless
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    0. God is all-knowing, all powerful, all-present. God is one in three persons
    1. God created everything. He is King of the Universe. He is just
    2. God's Word is LAW, is infallible, is trustworthy, IS true, is the authority and judge of all doctrine and practice.
    3. God IS Love, IS merciful, IS longsuffering
    4. God's Gospel does not violate His Justice or His Mercy
    5. God designed, created and maintains a universe of intelligent beings created with the capability of Free Will. Motivation is via compelling argument, emperical data - experiment, discovery of truth.
    6. God is NOT "appeased" in the death of His Son - God is not "paid" in the death of His Son. God did not demand that His Son "suffer torture until the Father FELT better - felt sooo good as to now be kind to mankind. ... RATHER in keeping with His Character God "SO LOVED THAT HE GAVE".

    God's Law is UPHELD when the penalty IT demands is satisfied rather than simply "suspending the Law" in the case of an arbitrarily selected FEW.

    7. God's Gospel RESTORES mankind to fellowship with God from which we fell in His perfectly designed peaceful Eden - created for mankind to enjoy, created as a place with no death, no sin, no sorrow, no suffering. Endless experiment - endless learninig, endlessly approaching the mind of God.
     
  3. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems as if people could nail down the seven "ones" of Eph 4:4-6, the unity for which Christ prayed in John 17 could be achieved. Most of them are pretty easily agreed on. Folks usually hang up on the one body and one baptism.
     
  4. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe we can look at the seven "ones" and see how far we can get.

    Eph 4:4 There is one body...

    The Bible identifys the body as the church in Eph 1:22, 23

    Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
    Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


    And in Col 1:18

    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the
    preeminence.


    The church is one in the sense of bringing both Jew and Gentile together as equals

    Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


    It is also one as in singular, in number. Jesus promised to build only one.

    Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Of course, this would not be a structure of wood or stone, nor any particular congregation of people, but a called out people from among both Jew and Gentile. It would consist of all those who would believe the message of the gospel and choose to be born into the family of God, to become the sons of God.

    Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    How are we doing so far?
     
    #4 Sgt. Fury, Mar 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2008
  5. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm guessing from the lack of dissent that all are in agreement so far, at least all who have read my last post on this thread. If you jump in late and want to disagree, that'll be fine.

    Next on the list is "one Spirit". To me there is little doubt that this is the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17) which was promised to the apostles.

    It was He Who spoke through the apostles, taught them, and brought to their remembrance all the things that Jesus had spoken to them (John 14:26). The instrument with which He does His work is the word of God, the sword of the Spirit (Eph 6:17).

    Through the one Spirit, the terms of pardon were given by the apostles, both to the alien sinner (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:35-36; 10:43, 48; 16:14-15; 16:31-33; 19:4-5;22:16), and to the erring Christian (Acts 8:22).

    This is the same Spirit from whence came miraculous spiritual gifts through the laying on of hands by the apostles (Acts 8:18-19).

    The one Spirit still calls people into the one body wherever the gospel is preached in its' simple, pure form.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    One Spirit - through whom we have the written Word of God "the Sword of the Spirit" according to Eph 6 speaking primarily of the OT but also applicable to the NT text.

    In all ages the miracles, the inspired word, the New Birth -- caused by the SAME Spirit - the Holy Spirit.

    One Gospel Gal 1:6-9.

    In all ages the WAY of Salvation -- the MEANS of salvation was always the one defined in the Gospel "by grace through faith and not of works".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    We could easily get off on a tangent pertaining to how the Spirit operates in conversion, whether directly or indirectly, but let's not for now. Agreed that the "one Spirit" is the Holy Spirit?
     
  8. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess we can move on to the "one hope". So far we are all enjoying the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace. Cool, huh?

    The one hope is the hope of the resurrection of the righteous, of eternal life, the hope of heaven. It's what keeps one going when the hard times come, knowing that no matter how rough things get, it's only for a little while, and that Heaven will surely be worth it all.

    It is in part hope which saves us: "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" (Rom 8:24).

    It is one of the three things abiding since the end of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit: "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is love" (1 Cor 13:13).

    It is hope that is evidenced by the purity of our lives: "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 John 3:3).

    There are other verses, of course, but these all shed some light on the "one hope".

    Anything I should have included? Anything I should have left out?
     
  9. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is an excellent approach to the "basics of Christianity"/OP. These 7 are definitely what we who believe ought to agree on and somewhat in the same detail that you are presenting it. This is what I call "in the Door" Christianity 'cause it gets you in.

    skypair
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Agreed - God the Holy Spirit
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4

    Yes.

    Your list relied upon scripture but made no statement about scripture. Is it to be trusted? Is it 66 books or 27? Can we "pick and choose" or does it rule authorotatively over what we are allowed to have for doctrine?

    Is God -- Creator? or Just Savior?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,869
    Likes Received:
    3
    The basics of Christianity? A giant in Christianity reduced it to this: Jesus loves me because the Bible tells me so. How many babies in Christianity has mastered that gigantic truth without ado!
     
  13. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, Bob, your question threatens to become a sidetrack! At the risk of getting too far from the OP, my view is that Scripture includes 66 books, both old and new testaments. However, for authority in religion I believe we must rely on the 27 books of the New Testament.

    There is value in the OT to be sure.

    Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

    But now that all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to the Son of God (Mt 28:18), I believe we must look to the Testament in His blood for authority in how to worship, how to be saved, etc.

    That said, let's go on to the "one Lord". I haven't done this thus far, and perhaps I should have, but here's the word translated "Lord" from Strong's:

    κύριος
    kurios
    koo'-ree-os
    From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God,

    For Christian unity, we all must take our marching orders from the same "General", if you will.

    As noted above, all authority has been given to Jesus

    Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    In the first gospel sermon ever preached, Peter unquestionably declared,

    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    It is the name (authority) of the one Lord which we must call upon to be saved,

    Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Also Rom 10:13).

    The "one Lord" is the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Doubtless more could be said to build the case. This is not intended to be an exhaustive study.
     
  14. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't figure there'd be too much argument with that last one, either. The next pillar of true Christian unity is the "one faith". Here's the word from Strong's.

    πίστις
    pistis
    pis'-tis
    From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.


    It seems to me that at least two aspects are in view with regard to our text:

    1. The nature of the faith in one's heart

    2. The system of faith as seen in the NT, covering salvation, worship, and Christian living.

    Concerning the nature of faith, I'd contend that it must be more than the mere mental acquiecence to the facts of the gospel or of the identity of Christ. Such faith can and has been had and yet not resulted in salvation (John 12:42, Mt 10:32-33). I submit that faith must be accompanied by appropriate action to be effective to salvation or anything else (James 2:14-26).

    As far as the system of faith, matters of salvation, worship, and faithful Christian living are all covered in the NT. All the differing opinions cannot be correct. There ought not be any notion of what "kind" of Christian a person is or what church one is a member of. After all, there is only one Lord, right? One might as well ask "What Christ do you believe in" as "What church are you a member of"?

    A bit of a rant there. Actually, though, the "one faith" and the "one body" are inseparable.

    In our text the Bible unequivocably states that there is "one faith". The Bible exhorts us to "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith..." 2 Cor 13:5).

    Elymas the sorcerer tried to turn Sergius Paulus away from "the faith", which Paul equated to "the right ways of the Lord" (Acts 13:8-10).

    A great number of priests in Jerusalem were obedient to "the faith" (Acts 6:7).

    Paul and Barnabas exhorted the disciples to continue in "the faith" (Acts 14:22).

    Paul and Timothy delivered the decrees ordained by the apostles and the churches were established in "the faith" (Acts 16:5).

    Paul was heard by Felix and Drusilla concerning "the faith" that is in Christ (Acts 24:24).

    Paul spoke of obedience to "the faith" to the Romans (Rom 1:5).

    There are many others.

    Now, the details of "the faith" can be a topic for discussion, and certainly many of them have been in the past, but for now let's consider whether there is "one faith", or if there are many.
     
    #14 Sgt. Fury, Mar 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2008
  15. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a feeling that our blissful state is about to come to and end. Maybe not, but the next "one" has been a source of contention in the past, and will likely continue to be. We'll see.

    The next item of Christian unity is the "one baptism". Here's the word from Strong's.

    G908
    βάπτισμα
    baptisma
    bap'-tis-mah
    From G907; baptism (technically or figuratively): - baptism.


    Since this is a bit lacking in terms of a definition, here's the word from which this comes, G907.

    G907
    βαπτίζω
    baptizō
    bap-tid'-zo
    From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.


    I believe this is the baptism commanded in Acts 2:38, which was for the remission of sins.

    It was commanded in obedience to Christ in the Great Commission (Mt 28:19-20; Mk 16:15-16; Luke 24:47).

    It is described as a burial and a raising up again (Rom 6:3-5; Col 2:12).

    It was an occasion of rejoicing in more than one conversion (Acts 8:39; 16:34).

    It was the one thing that a believing, penitent Saul of Tarsus was told that he must do (Acts 22:16).

    It is how one comes "into Christ" (Rom 6:3; Gal 3:27), where all spiritual blessings are (Eph 1:3).

    It is the only baptism commanded in the pages of the NT (Acts 2:38; 10:47-48; 22:16).

    It is the only baptism which is ever assumed in the NT (Acts 19:3; Rom 6:3; Gal 3:27; Col 2:12).

    It is the baptism which saves us (Mk 16:16; 1 Pet 3:21).

    I imagine I might hear from a few of you now...:)
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Peter says "acccording to that Baptism now SAVES you NOT THE touching of water to the FLESH (the act of physically entering water) but the APPEAL to God for a CLEAN conscience".

    Just as Romans 10 defines the process of salvation being belief and confession. Baptism is a subsequent "good work" done by the believing born-again Christian. "Good works" can not save.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob, I'm not sure what translation you're using there. Here are a few of the ones I have available to me.

    (ASV) which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

    (BBE) And baptism, of which this is an image, now gives you salvation, not by washing clean the flesh, but by making you free from the sense of sin before God, through the coming again of Jesus Christ from the dead;

    (CEV) Those flood waters were like baptism that now saves you. But baptism is more than just washing your body. It means turning to God with a clear conscience, because Jesus Christ was raised from death.

    (Darby) which figure also now saves you, even baptism, not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the demand as before God of a good conscience, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    (DRB) Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but, the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    (EMTV) which as an antitype, baptism now also saves us--(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    (ESV) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    (GNB) which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you. It is not the washing off of bodily dirt, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    (GW) Baptism, which is like that water, now saves you. Baptism doesn't save by removing dirt from the body. Rather, baptism is a request to God for a clear conscience. It saves you through Jesus Christ, who came back from death to life.

    (ISV) Baptism, which is symbolized by that water, now saves you also, not by removing dirt from the body, but by asking God for a clear conscience based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    (KJV) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    (LITV) Which antitype now also saves us, baptism (not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

    (Murdock) And ye also, by a like figure, are made alive by baptism, (not when ye wash your bodies from filth, but when ye confess God with a pure conscience,) and by the resurrection of Jesus the Messiah;

    (RV) which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ;

    (WNT) And, corresponding to that figure, the water of baptism now saves you--not the washing off of material defilement, but the craving of a good conscience after God--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    (YLT) also to which an antitype doth now save us--baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ,


    My take on this is that baptism is not a bath for removing dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a clean conscience, since baptism is what God has commanded in order to have one's sins remitted. Had God not commanded it, there would be no value in it whatsoever.

    I'm not aware of any other command given that is for the remission of sins, which would result in a clean conscience, since sin is what stains the conscience.

    Apart from it's purpose (remission of sins), I can't think of any good that baptism would do. Would it classify as a "good work"?
     
  18. Darron Steele

    Darron Steele
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes Received:
    0
    In ancient society, baptism was meant to demonstrate prior conversion. This was its purpose in Judaic culture as well.

    The purpose of getting baptism is simple: Christ told us that His disciples should be baptized. That alone is sufficient merit.
     
  19. Sgt. Fury

    Sgt. Fury
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Before we get too far from the topic, is there any dispute about Great Commission baptism being the "one baptism" of Eph 4? We can talk about the why, when, and how, too, but we're almost through the seven "ones" of the unity of the Spirit, and I don't want to get too far afield...
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8,869
    Likes Received:
    3
    GE

    The Baptism Sgt Fury refers to SAVES! So you two can't be talking of the same thing. "ONE baptism", like "one Faith that Saves; like One Lord Who Saves! The Baptism that Saves cannot be a work of man because no work or obedience of man can save.

    What's the problem the Church (or most Christians) keep on arguing for two baptisms in the One Christian Faith?
     

Share This Page

Loading...