backsliding...is it possible?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by S. Jensen, Jun 11, 2001.

  1. S. Jensen

    S. Jensen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have several questions about this topic.

    1. What is backsliding?
    2. What scriptures indicate that a believer can backslide?
    3. How long can someone be in a backsliden state?
    4. What happens to a person who dies while in a backslidden state? (scriptural ref)
     
  2. Circuitrider

    Circuitrider
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/circuitrider2.JPG>

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2000
    Messages:
    729
    Likes Received:
    0
    SJ, backsliding is strictly an OT term and was used to refer to an OT apostate. It was not a true believer who had sinned and was out of fellowship with God. Backsliding - meshuwbah or meshubah from "apostasy" -- backsliding, turning away. Jeremiah and Hosea are the only users of the word with a single reference in Proverbs.

    I would only use this word in regard to church age matters that might apply by application to a modern day apostate. Remember an apostate is a person who has come up to the threshold of truth of the Word of God and then chosen to reject it.

    ;)
     
  3. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,181
    Likes Received:
    326
    That there is little or nor hope seems to be true in the New Covenant age also for those whom
    (as you say) come to the threshold of faith and turn or fall away.

    Hebrews 6:4
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    However the writer of Hebrews prefaces all this with

    3 And this will we do, if God permit.

    What I believe the inspired writer is saying is that once a person has turned or fallen from the position of understanding through the illumination of Spirit of God of what is required after this illumination, namely faith, there is no human recourse ever again, UNLESS GOD PERMITS.

    There is hope. But only if God permits.

    I believe this is different than the Christian who returns to or tarries in a sin from his/her former life.

    HankD
     
  4. Ars

    Ars
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HankD:
    What I believe the inspired writer is saying is that once a person has turned or fallen from the position of understanding through the illumination of Spirit of God of what is required after this illumination, namely faith, there is no human recourse ever again, UNLESS GOD PERMITS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Rather than reading too much into this, could I ask you to clarify what you mean by this statement. Specifically the portion that I have italicized?

    Thanks!
    Dave
     
  5. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,181
    Likes Received:
    326
    &gt;&gt;there is no human recourse ever again, UNLESS GOD PERMITS.&gt;&gt;

    First let me assume (you don't have to do so) that Paul is writing this epistle.

    Paul (I believe) is saying that those (especially Hebrews) who hear and understand the gospel but turn from it without accepting Christ have no hope
    even if they hear the gospel again UNLESS GOD PERMITS. Acts 13:38ff...
    38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
    39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
    40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
    41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

    HankD
     
  6. Ars

    Ars
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    AH, OK, that makes sense now. I wasn't quite sure what you were referring to. And, I didn't want to write some long dissertation about how you were wrong or right when I wasn't totally clear what you were saying.

    Thanks!
    Dave
     
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Backslider is one of those terms that have taken on a new life by its continual MISUSE in our preaching.

    We imply that a Christian who sins (and we ALL do, except my wife's first husband who was perfect ;)) is "backslidden".

    No, he's a christian who sinned. And when we sin we are NOT "backslidden"; I John 2:1 tells us that we have an Advocate with the Father pleading our case, Jesus Christ.

    Once a person is TRULY BORN AGAIN, he cannot be a "backslider". That is a terribly wrong and misleading use of an OT word, usually by youth pastors and evangelists.

    My opinion. Do others see the term as misused?
     
  8. Ars

    Ars
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob, let me see if I understand you correctly. Let me paraphrase what I think you mean. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    Once a person is TRULY BORN AGAIN, he cannot be a "backslider". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The way I read this is as follows:
    A person who is TRULY BORN AGAIN, cannot revert back to their old ways? I.E. a drug user has been saved, but then, four years after his "salvation", he returns back to his old was of drug abuse?

    I'm just trying to understand your meaning.

    Thanks!
    Dave
     
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    MODERN use of backslider = a christian who sins a bunch and ought to "get right with God". Heard that preached? I have!

    BIBLE use of backslider = someone who was never really saved who sins a bunch (like sinners do!)

    I am simply trying to emphasize the WRONG "modern" use of a term in much of our preaching. Christians sin. But a truly born again christian CANNOT "backslide" by Bible definition.

    Hope that sheds light . . [​IMG]

    [ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  10. S. Jensen

    S. Jensen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is there a better term to use instead of "backsliding"?

    Can a true Christian go back and live a life of sin (like he did before conversion) even though the Holy Spirit is within? Or is this person not really saved?
     
  11. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,181
    Likes Received:
    326
    &gt;&gt;Is there a better term to use instead of "backsliding"?&gt;&gt;

    Carnal/carnality is probably the best NT word.

    &gt;&gt;Can a true Christian go back and live a life of sin (like he did before conversion) even though the Holy Spirit is within? Or is this person not really saved? &gt;&gt;

    Personally, I think the Scripture indicates its possible. The Corinthian Church is certainly a model (howbeit infamous) of carnality with bickering, "porneia", drunkeness (at the Lord's Table), confusion, etc...
    Paul did warn them that this is why they were weak, sickly and some "slept" (had died).
    I don't think we should under estimate either God's severity or His mercy towards his children.
    Jesus warns his servants in the Revelation who are commiting "porneia" to repent.
    It seems this porneia thing has been a problem all along.
    John Bunyan (wrote Pilgrim's Progress) said in his autobiography that he fell miserably but later returned to Christ.
    He went on to say that he fell but didn't fall away.
    In his book Pilgrim's Progress he characterizes many different kinds of "christians" (false and otherwise)at Vanity Fair, etc...
    You might enjoy his book. Written in 1678 with many of the same problems and pit-falls in Chritianity that we have today.

    HankD
     
  12. preacher

    preacher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unfortunatly, I am living proof that a born
    again BloodWashed man can return to a sinful lifestyle. I was there 12 years, and part of the reason I'm still alive is to give a light to those in the same hole I was in.
    The only reasoning I can give to my particular situation is that I was still a
    "babe" when I turned back, fell, however you would term it. But I'm also living proof of the longsuffering, and the promise that our Lord will never leave nor forsake one of His.
    All I can do now is whatever he wills, I just wish I'd learned that many years ago.
     
  13. S. Jensen

    S. Jensen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Preacher,
    If you were to die in that "fallen" state, would you have been in heaven without crowns, rewards, etc???

    Also, is a person that does not love the Lord saved?

    (if you love me you will keep my commands; you cannot love God and money (mammon); etc) Does a person who is carnal really love the Lord?
     
  14. preacher

    preacher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    0
    SJ,
    Good question, wish I was more qualified to answer. The bible teaches that our "works"
    will be tried,(read 1Cor.3:11-15) so according to these scriptures, yes I would suffer much loss.
    As for loving the Lord, you're right on what scripture teaches, but I have to answer
    with a question. Can not a child be raised by loving parents, and never return that love? I'm learning that true love is something you grow in, like faith.
    Just as in a marriage(hopefully) the love
    you have for each other at the beginning does'nt stay the same level, it grows!
    So I would say yes a person could be saved
    & not truly love the Lord, but it is a sorry
    existance for someone to live that way. :(
     
  15. Danny

    Danny
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S. Jensen:
    Is there a better term to use instead of "backsliding"?

    Can a true Christian go back and live a life of sin (like he did before conversion) even though the Holy Spirit is within? Or is this person not really saved?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I believe a Christian can. Look at the prodigal son as an example. One important thing to note here though. He came to his senses, and left the pig pen, and returned home. A Christian will sin, be he always comes to his senses. A true son will eventually get out of the pig pen. A true pig will remain in the pig pen. Make sense?


    [​IMG]
     
  16. extremebiblereader

    extremebiblereader
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2001
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well lets see here...I personally believe that someone can go back into sin after being saved.....maybe because they are still growing and not grounded in the faith. I know alot of teenagers that say they are saved but they really don't show it..and uhm you can tell that all they love is themselves and not God. But i believe that you can be saved and not love God or want to do what is right. Well you might want to
    but are afraid of what "everyone else will think" So it is possible.
     
  17. Mike G

    Mike G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    I once had a pastor who used to say "Backsliding is a doctrine that Baptists believe and practice."

    I believe that a truly saved person can fall back into sin. I would recommend Charles Stanley's book "Eternal Security". In it he discusses rewards, etc. Once saved we can't be lost again, but we can suffer loss in rewards (1 Cor. 3:10-15).
     
  18. S. Jensen

    S. Jensen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2001
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rachel,
    So a person can go to heaven without loving God? And a TRUE Christian, with the Holy Spirit present, can be ashamed of God and not love the Lord and still go to heaven?

    Is this what some call "easy-believism" ? Is it tought by the bible or just many churches?
     
  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    (Bringing this to the top)
     
  20. Kathy

    Kathy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    0
    This brings another question to mind for me...if a saved Christian has fallen into sin OR a saved Christian who doesn't think what they are doing is a sin, what kind of consequences will we face as Christians under grace for the sin we commit AFTER our redemption? The gift of salvation only actually gives us eternal life with God, right? Do all of our sins go pardoned, or will we "suffer" (no suffering in Heaven, I know, just used for understanding purposes) the consequences of our sins. ALSO, all sins no matter big or small are all the same aren't they?

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     

Share This Page

Loading...