backsliding...is it possible?

Kathy,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. (Rom 7:18-21 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Continue to read in Romans (with a good Bible study guide) from this passage. There is too much spiritual "meat" for me to go into it all.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. (Rom 8:33 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We do not justify ourselves by our actions once we are saved. God justifies us!

Sin is sin to God. He cannot, because of His nature, allow ANY sin into heaven. But all of a believer's sins: past, present and future, have been washed away by the blood of Jesus.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (Rom 4:24 NIV) God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor 5:21 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then we are MADE righteous by God. We do not personally achieve righteousness in our earthly bodies because we are stuck with our sinful natures. What we are set free of is the "bent" toward perpetual sin.

I have found in my personal maturation process as a Christian that I am sinning less and less (but far from perfect), and that I recognize when I sin and repent (ask God for forgiveness) more quickly. That is called the sanctification process!

God bless!

 

Dear extremebiblereader,

You cannot not love God and be saved. You cannot not desire to obey His Word and be saved. I reference THE ENTIRE BIBLE! I say this in the love of Christ: if you believe what you have said, you are deceived about your own salvation, and should not be witnessing to others until you are led to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

 

Danny said, "A true son will eventually get out of the pig pen. A true pig will remain in the pig pen. Make sense?"

All too clear!

I agree with Dr. Bob in that backslider is a misused term, but it has become so common that everyone understands what is meant today is a temporary condition of a falling away from God. Many, however, confuse it with "apostate."

I'll repeat what I read somewhere, which should provide perfect clarity: "Peter was a backslider. Judas was an apostate!"

 

Thank you Wellsjs, you are a good teacher! I appreciate all of your posts and I have learned from you as well. With communion with my Father and fellowship with brothers such as yourself, I will continue to grow and mature in my walk with Christ.

Kathy
&lt;&gt;&lt;

 

Kathy,

You have going for you what a lot of us, including myself, could use more of . . . a "teachable spirit!"

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I often hear people say they were witnessing to a saved person who was just backsliden. They said the person was working one their third divorse, they were intoxicated, they had been arrested for driving under the influence, etc... but they are just slipping a little... is it possible to live this way and be a saved person?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are bound to get many answers to this particular question. However, here's my take on it.

I highly doubt the phrase slipping a little is accurate. Slipping A LOT is more like it. When someone takes their eyes off the Lord, they will slip. If you continue to keep your eyes off of the Lord, you will slip further and further. You will not, however, slip from the Lords grasp.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John10: 28&29


Many people on this board speak of salvation, yet I don't recall seeing anyone speaking of rewards.

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 16:27

His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord
Matthew 25:21

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1 Corinthians 9: 24&25

The things we do on earth, our works if you will, do not save us, but rather earn us rewards in Heaven. And, unlike salvation, which we cannot lose, we can lose those rewards we have stored in Heaven.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad
II Corinthians 5:10

Let me make this very clear. This verse is not in a judgment to determine if one will go to Heaven or Hell. That was determined while the person was still living on earth, on the basis of whether or not he had received Christ as his Saviour. But this is a judgment for believers only, to determine whether or not they will have rewards during the thousand-year reign of Christ on earth.

So, in my opinion, it is possible for a person to be "backslidden" and still be saved. Even in cases where a person falls deep into sin. Although we become children of God, we still have freedom of choice. We can still choose to be disobedient. Some repent right away, others choose not to. So, we can doubt or question the person's salvation, but no one can say that that person is or isn't saved. No one. That is between God and the individual.

Dave

 

An apostate is one who renounces their faith.

In your example, and many times in life we assume that the person who says he/she is saved actually is saved. It is only for God to truly know a person's heart. I guess it's possible for a saved person (in God's eyes) to seriously backslide, die in that condition, and go to heaven (which they surely would if they were saved in God's eyes).

Much more often than that, however, I believe the once religious person who degrades to the state you described, never was saved: never got their heart right with God. They thought they were saved. Their friends thought they were saved. If they were a pastor, their congregation thought they were saved. But they never fooled God!

Many saved people take a prodigal journey like you described, but pull out of it and make the journey home to the "Father" eventually.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. (James 1:2-4 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Apostle Paul talked of "completing the race for the prize." One of my favorite verses, because I think it reveals Gods abounding love and patience, is: "Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it." (Prov 22:6 NIV) Ephesians 6 instructs fathers to raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, and I think that's what "train" implies here. The amazing part is that the point made is "when he is old he will not turn from it." That leaves room for our prodigal journeys (backslides). That does not mean we are at liberty to take one, but that should we be deceived by Satan, the great Deceiver, and follow him down a wrong path, the Father will run to us with open arms when we come to our senses and return home!

 

I just noticed when posting my last post it said, "Sit tight, we are taking you back to "backsliding ... is it possible?"
What a scary thought, but I suppose it is possible.

[ July 20, 2001: Message edited by: wellsjs ]

 

Dave,

You are right on, brother! I expect to meet King Solomon in heaven when I get there.

For those reading who may not be totally familiar with King Solomon's story, I'll try to give the brief version: Everyone's heard of Solomon's riches, and that he is considered the wisest man that ever lived. These are true. But King Solomon let lust and women (he acquired hundreds of wives and concubines) lure him away from his walk with God. His foreign wives led him to even worship their foreign gods and idols. And Solomon lived his last days estranged from God. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Was it not because of marriages like these that Solomon king of Israel sinned? Among the many nations there was no king like him. He was loved by his God, and God made him king over all Israel, but even he was led into sin by foreign women. (Neh 13:26 NIV)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a picture of a pretty backsliden state, but Solomon "was loved by his God" and will be in heaven when we get there!

 

Notice that all your referenced verses talk about some variation of "continuing to sin." The opposite of "continue to sin" is not in the biblical sense, "sinless." It means that we will not repeatedly, without conviction and repentance, repeat the same sin over and over. Remember Paul's discourse that concluded with "wretched man that I am?" Even he acknowledged that he routinely fell short of "sinlessness." Not continuing to sin also means that we are not naturally inclined to sin as we were before receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

Maybe you should lovingly share these verses with your nominal Christian relatives:

Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey what I command. (John 14:15 NIV)

AND!!!!!

"Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Mat 7:17-20 NIV)

The Apostle John said, "We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands." (1 John 2:3 NIV)

Your relatives and many, many people mistake intellectual assent (agree with what the Bible says) with the kind of "belief" that John 3:16 requires. That kind of belief requires that "self" must die so that Christ may reign in us. That is where the concept that we are crucified in Christ comes from.

Unfortunately, they may never have their eyes opened, as many won't, but one day they will experience:

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Mat 7:22-23 NIV)