Backsliding

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Servent, Jan 15, 2004.

  1. Servent

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    I dont really understand backsliding, If a person is turly saved how can they backslide. Im talking about a person who knows that there reward is not on this earth but in Heaven, a person who knows what Christ did for him on the cross.Is this person really saved, or did they never turly beleive & repent. How could a person who understands these things be a so called backslider. Help me out here.
     
  2. Servent

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    I may have put this in the wrong spot, it should be under general discussion, if nessary could someone move it.
     
  3. Servent

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    I may have put this in the wrong spot, it should be under general discussion, if nessary could someone move it.
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

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    Yes, I believe it is possible. But if a person goes so far that the Word of God no longer has any effect on their state of being, you have to wonder if it was ever real in the first place.

    I can testify of times after I was saved that I went off down the wrong path, but the Word of God and the Spirit of God brought me back. It's called rebellion...and it happens a lot, especially during the teenage years.
     
  5. Bethelassoc

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    If we put aside the camps of doctrine and look at the context of salvation, we would realize that salvation is not based upon us, but it is based upon Him. (Jn 6:44, Jn 14:6)

    We were bought with a price, the blood of Christ, so now we are not our own but His. We belong to Him. (1 Cor 6:20 & 7:23)

    The biggest "hangup" people have is that they believe there should be consequences (for others, of course!) for doing wrong, and there are, but then when "we" are in a dilemma, we are comforted to know that God is longsuffering and willing to forgive our sins.

    John says not to sin, but when sin is committed, we have a way to ask for forgiveness. (1 Jn 2:1)

    It is often overlooked that the Holy Spirit is upon us to be our connection to Christ. As Christians, we are sealed with the promise of God (Eph 1:13).

    It comes back to the same question: Why is backsliding taught? I believe it is to scare people into doing the right works, rather than rely upon God. Christianity isn't supposed to be scary, it's supposed to be the greatest experience that man can live.

    Don't worry about antinomianism (no law), we are taught that we are to follow God's law which is reinforced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    When we do "mess up", His willing to forgive us. (1 Jn 1:9)

    Why then are we fascinated at looking for boundaries in God's love? This is what backsliding teaches. A child of God would in no way want to jeopardize their relationship with God. This is based on personal experiences, this is based upon His Word.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Daniel David

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    Backsliding is an erroneous teaching. Believers do not backslide. I wonder why the N.T. NEVER mentions it? Actually I don't.
     
  7. USN2Pulpit

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    Are you both saying then that no born-again believer ever rebels?
     
  8. Daniel David

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    Romans 8:14
    For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

    Do you believe the Holy Spirit goes backwards?

    We have to let the Scriptures dictate our theology.
     
  9. USN2Pulpit

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    And I ask you again...do you believe no born-again believer has ever rebelled? If you don't like the term "backslide" don't use it. Perhaps it's not accurate. Maybe "lukewarm," "cold," or "rebellious" is more accurate.
     
  10. Trotter

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    Although we are saved at the moment of belief, and our eternal destiny is changed, we still retain this body of flesh. True, we are a new creation, but the old nature does not just roll over and die.

    I am saved, but I have "backsli" many, many times. I personally do not care for that term, but it is the most common one in use. Each time I am disobedient, each time I fail to live up to the high and holy calling of God, each time I sin, I am "backslid".

    It is possible to live in that condition, but it is not pleasant. God chastens those that are His, just as sons. When we are rebellious, God works to bring us back to Him. It is in our blood to rebel, but God loves us too much to let us have our heads in the matter.

    I have learned not to automatically question a person's salvation if they stumble, or even if they seem to fall away. Paul told the Galations to restore one another with care, lest they also came to the same condition. We would do well to head those words.

    It is so very easy to pass judgement on others who are not living as they should, but we want special treatment when we are doing the same. God loves us all the same, even when we are trying our best to get on that ship bound for Tarshish. And praise His name that He does!

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  11. Daniel David

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    Can the believer sin? Yes.

    Does the believer go backward? No. I already posted Romans 8:14.

    Backslidden is a term used by those who embrace easybelievism and cheapgrace salvation. Somehow, they have to explain people that walk away. It is real simple, they aren't saved if they walk away.

    Believers can be involved in sin. However, the Spirit is then working on trimming OTHER areas of their life and molding them to be more like Christ. We are being changed from glory to glory.
     
  12. Bethelassoc

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    I believe a great chapter to read is Romans 7. Paul gets more on a personal level when talking about the spirit and the flesh.

    I agree with him when he thanks God that even though this body lusts (unredeemed), the inner man desires to do the things of God (redeemed).

    The rebellion has nothing to do with leaving salvation. That's what I call turnstyle salvation which is non-biblical.

    The question still remains as to why some Christians have a fascination with finding boundaries to God's grace?
     
  13. Daniel David

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    Romans 7 is about Paul prior to salvation.
     
  14. Me2

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    If a person is following the law (ten commandments) to serve God. and if they fail to follow the law (or sin)

    the next step is to pray to jesus the christ and ask forgiveness.

    yet if (and when) the law is broken again, the same patterns are violated. we return and pray for forgivrness.

    backsliding is someone who keeps making promises to God that they will stop failing. that they will try to stop sinning!. thinking they have the strength to stop. when the point of the law is to kill those very attempts of man to continue to think they can within their own power live by the law successfully.

    when we surrender to God to final and utter hopelessness. we recognize the laws job has been completed. we are brought to our own recognition of our spiritual death.

    this is called being baptised into the death of Christ. notice "into death". the law brought us to the recognition of our hopelessness and reality of our own spiritual death. (or baptised into water. water representing the vehicle of death. remember the flood)

    1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

    the second part of this baptism is into the "blood of christ".
    into the actual resurrected body of Christ.

    think of backsliding as those who should have not recognized their own death yet. their walking zombies not knowing their supposed to be buried once and for all.

    the bible states that there is only "one" baptism yet we see that it has two seperate components.

    a) either we believe we have not come to the recognition of the death of our old carnal spirit.

    or...

    b) one can believe that the law has utterly killed their old man, but then they dont recognize that they have been resurrected "in christ". (jesus is not lord)

    or..

    c) one can believe that the law has completed its task of killing the works of our old spirit. brought us to the final recognition that we should finally be buried once and for all (accepting the judgements of God) and in turn continue this process by believing that we are being placed into the body of Christ and believe he and yourself have been resurrected from spiritual death. (jesus has defeated death. he is lord)

    now we know we all receive instruction (wisdom) of the holy spirit. our bibles state this, yet there is a second part of this wisdom. the understanding or revelation. God himself can veil our eyes and ears never to reveal to us the proof of this wisdom. here is where we hold to wisdom by faith waiting for the proof or understanding.

    without understanding, wisdom is dead. remember persecutions that are to come. this is Gods way of forcing us to hold by faith to the wisdom until we receive the understanding making our faith become reality. wisdom and understanding create within us knowledge. knowledge based on containing within us the needed evidence or proof that the wisdom we hold is truthful. we are living witnesses to these truths of God.

    when one states that Christ is "in them". what does this actually mean?. that their old spirit has been judged and buried. their old spirit has been replaced by the new spirit of Jesus and we all know what happened to him...

    His spirit has been judged righteous and has been resurrected. His spirit is now in heaven. and heaven is NOW "within you". you now contain an immortal and incorruptable spirit.

    you cant spiritually backslide.

    your flesh might make a mistake by what our sight reveals to us. yet within us. we have a righteous spirit that cannot sin against the law. for it has already died, been resurrected and never to be convicted by it any more.

    be careful here though. this is the juncture where vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy seperate. this is the moment where one can see the choice of God has made for this individual. whether they continue their life in christ by faith or revert back to following the law under their own power.

    Oh the mysteries of God.. [​IMG]

    Me2

    [ January 18, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]
     
  15. gb93433

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    One might ask. "Was Peter a follower of Jesus when he denied Him three times?"

    Followers of Jesus fall seven times and rise again.

    Abraham fell but still followed God. David fell several times and still followed God. Moses fell several times and still followed God. It is not so cut and dried as some might think.
     
  16. Daniel David

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    Did they fall forward or backward?

    Is Romans 8:14 true for only me?
     
  17. Me2

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    Daniel,

    Do you believe God chooses vessels of wrath?.

    Me2
     
  18. IanM

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    I believe it is possible to be saved and not live for GOD. Look at the life of David. Many times he did things which were way outside of the will of GOD. In my own life I have done things which were not in GODS will. Many call it backsliding. I think it is all part of our war with the flesh.
     
  19. Trotter

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    "Backsliding" is just a name that we use to describe a person who is not living for God (a believer, that is).

    Everyone will eventually fail and choose the lure of sin (unless you believe 'holiness' is a second act of grace, in which case you are in the wrong section of the Board). When a believer chooses sin, he is seperated from fellowship with the Father. When the believer chooses to stay in this condition (or to continue to commit the sin), it is what we term "backsliding".

    The individual is thus choosing to live outside of the will of God, and is openly rebelling against God's sovereignty. Chastening will soon follow (and, no, I'm not saying everything bad that happens to someone is because of sin...that is not Biblical; but for God to correct His errant children is...but it need not be overt things at all).

    God is jealous of what is His, and all who have been saved are His. When we rebel against God by going our own way, we are purposefully stepping out of fellowship with ourheavenly Father, and are literally asking for misery because there is no peace away from God for those that belong to Him.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  20. Bethelassoc

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    DD:

    Paul's statement in verse 25 of Romans 7 cannot be prior to salvation.
     

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