Featured Baltimore is a democrat problem, not america’s problem

:laugh: I like our short replies...at least we actually read them. But you are still speaking of ownership, Zaac. Control is a major part of the issue....but not necessarily control "of the money."

 

I agree that corporate greed contributes. But those “advocates” that we speak of are under a greater guilt. "Liberation" would be to them a loss as they are essentially oppressors. I agree that a lack of opportunities facilitate an atmosphere of hopelessness. But hopelessness does not justify immorality. Where I disagree is with the unfounded conclusion that these are “victims” who are now “entitled” to take from others what is not theirs (thievery). (sorry for the length...I'll keep it shorter next time :smilewinkgrin.

 

I agree. The problem is that the message conveyed is not unanimously beneficial to those struggling in a hopeless situation. Selma is a good example. Things were changing apart from violence, and in many ways the violence made things worse. But it did bring racial issues to the surface as a more urgent and pressing matter. Unfortunately injustice always accompanies such violence and it becomes impossible to purge that violence from the undercurrent that survives. If that were not so, then I believe you would have a better point. But the violence that we see today is directly related to that of the past….it’s just resurfacing again.

 

I agree that the violence made America take notice. Violence was not, however, the springboard that thrust the movement forward. Violence marked the frustration of a people who realized strides forward were gaining little ground. Here is where we disagree. Saying that racial issues today are resurfacing because the situation of the past is resurfacing or repeating itself is wrong. It cheapens what that generation went through and misplaces focus on the socioeconomic issues that need to be addressed today. Then it was a matter of recognizing equality (in persons, rights, etc.) but now it is a backlash against perceived injustices. There certainly are issues that need to be addressed, but we disagree on what exactly those issues are. When I look at Selma (reality, not the movie) I see a people justly striving for social change. When I look at Baltimore I see a reaction to socioeconomic issues and a sense of entitlement that was not in the forefront of the equal rights movement. In Selma they fought for equality. In Baltimore they fight as expression. This does not mean that there are no issues to address (there are many). But we need to take care to address those issues instead of allowing our own racial prejudices cloud the water.

 

Just because some believe it feels the same doesn’t mean that it is the same. What I mean by racism via the “advocates,” BTW, is the assumption that there are “systematic killings” of black men. Each incident that has been introduced into the public spotlight has been determined as an “unjust killing” by people alien to the event and prior to an examination of the facts. This is racism (and from posts in the past, it is racism on your part as well). These deaths are not systematic, but rather systemic.

What I mean by entitlement is not that one is entitled to a particular thing, but rather than there is a sense of entitlement within American culture today. People believe that they should have something because they deserve something. I do not mean this directed to any particular race, but to our culture in general.

 

I don't know what FOX says Black people are entitled to. When one speaks of "white privilege" then they are implying a sense of entitlement. I am saying that we have created a culture of entitlement (and I have not linked this to any race as it is not really a factor).

I’m moving on, but wanted to address this one last time. You have brought up some good points, although we disagree as to both the problem and the solution. If you jump to the conclusion that a white officer killing a black man is racially motivated (or systematic) then you are just as racist as a white officer who quickly mis-accesses the situation based on the color of another’s skin. Racism is racism. A society cannot provide justice for past injustices. Neither should they implement policies based on race (racism, affirmative action,…whatever you wish to call it) as you cannot combat racism with more racism. It perpetuates the problem. All that we can do is strive for a culture that is racially blind. I know that this is unpopular with many but until we stop seeing skin color and start seeing people created in God’s image then there will always be racial issues and injustices (on all sides). That’s what we get in a fallen world.

 

Except for the white part, your definition of white privilege sounds a lot like affirmative action.

 

Zaac,
I apologize for the quickness of my response. I didn’t have time to study your comments in detail and therefore did not give it the attention that it warranted.

I understand the concept of “white privilege,” but our society itself demonstrates it does not exist (it is a figment). That is not to say that some people discriminate. The reason “white privilege” in theory is elusive in practice is that it’s solely linked to race. The “white man” has the advantage because he is white….yet there are opportunities extended to minorities that exclude white people. I had a dear friend from Africa who expected me to be a racist because I was white, and she certainly treated my wife and I differently until she knew us. Are these examples of “black privilege”? Have people who believe in the concept of “white privilege” actually spoken with white people who cannot catch a break….who work two jobs at minimum wage and still can’t feed their children? Here you seem to project your own racism on a people. There is no inherent entitlement on the part of most white people (there is an inherent entitlement on the part of many….but race is the determining factor only if we look on with racist eyes). It is a people issue….not a race issue….except where the profiteers are concerned.

But the issue is not race. It is an economic….and cultural….issue. It is a social issue. But I can show you predominately white neighborhoods where the people are in the exact same position. In other words, the government did not turn down home loans because a man was black. They turned down the loan because of economic indicators regarding repayment. Your point regarding an inherited disadvantage when compared to some white people who come from rich families is taken and understood. But when you speak of wealth being passed to the next generation in terms of education you must also recognize the immaterial cultural expectations that are passed down as well. What some people want they cannot have because they are unwilling to change for achievement. Culture needs to be addressed.

I’m white. Where’s my “leg up”? I have a black friend who went to college on a minority scholarship. His grades were not better than mine, but I joined the military and worked to pay for college. I don’t hold any animosity towards him….or even the system….it is what it is (although I suppose you’d call it “black privilege”).

If you are saying systemic and not systematic, then I agree. There are systemic issues that affect races differently. Some are rooted in prejudices and others are self-inflected (if we want to continue stereotyping a race of people). Statists and experience also plays a role in how people react (especially police officers). You are right that there are systemic issues.

Nonsense, we never have provided justice for past injustices….we have addressed the issue and provided something, but not justice.

The playing field has never been level regardless of race. Those who want a “level playing field” are racists who seek to advance because of race. That’s racism.

That is the issue. I don’t think that we advocate a deeper racism to try to cover perceived (or actual) racism….that’s hypocrisy. I don’t think that we blame another race….that’s foolishness. It is going to take change BUT it is going to take change on all involved. The police will not stop expecting the young black man who flees, turns and reaches for something to have a gun when their experience teaches them that this is the probable outcome. It is systemic to our culture. The white police officer is trying to provide for a family that he wants to be able to return to after his shift. It would be foolish to “bet against the odds,” but it is racially motivated not to take that chance. The black community will assume that the officer fired because he is a racist (granted, it was racially influenced) even if the young man intended to shoot. They are, after all, victims (and they are…but they are also victims of their own culture). Change cannot be unilateral, but neither side is willing to take responsibility or consider change.

Immorality never demands immorality in return. Perhaps those throwing stones would behave differently if they were influenced more by the Church and less by the profiteers.

I agree. The Church that ignores holiness, that ignores living the “mind of Christ,” ignores the only evidence that validates the gospel to the world. I know a lot of white people. I know a lot of black people. I don’t know of any who actually live in the milieu you describe. But you are right that the Church should be the Church.