"Bapticostal" Challenges Baptists on Tongues

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Marcia, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia
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    This is just an excerpt - not the whole article.

    http://www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones/
    "Fire In My Bones," by J Lee Grady
    I do not agree with him but will say no more for now and just read what others say.
     
  2. Pete

    Pete
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    As if there aren't enough AoG/etcs around as it is :rolleyes: This will have to be sorted out one way or another soon. It's going beyond soul liberty and heading for Judges 21:25 territory :rolleyes:
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    I was ordained in the Pentecostal faith. After much study in the Word of God, I left the Pentecostal denomination. My reasons?

    Tongues and being slain in the Spirit.

    Tongues:

    The Pentecostal/Charismatic use Paul's statement about 'Though I speak with the tongues of angels' as one of their arguments that the tongue that they speak is from God. I say, 'Baloney!.. Angels from the beginning spoke in a language that people could understand, not some gibberish that they had to wait for someone else to interpret.

    The unknown tongue is a communication to God according to 1 Corinthians 14:2, yet when a supposed interpretation is given, it is always from God to man. If I were to speak to, say Pete, in German, and Marcia was interpreting German to English, she would not say out loud what Pete says to me, but what I said to him. What is practiced in the P/C Churches is exactly opposite. Paul ended that great chapter on the tongues with 'Let all things be done decently and in order.' It is quite evident from the supposed interpretations that they are not in order.

    Slaying in the Spirit:

    If God is going to make someone fall, why do they need 'catchers'? If it is of God, they should not fear they are going to get hurt when they fall, or anyone else.

    Also, from what I read in the Word of God, when one accepted the touch of the Lord, they fell forward, to their knees or to their face... not backward! When they fell backward, they fell from fear such as the soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane.
     
  4. blackbird

    blackbird
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    Two quotes that are very "spooky"

    "As I was praying some strange words began to come out of my mouth"

    Strange words

    Sounds a bit "Gadarene" ish to me

    "The Holy Spirit's untamed passion"

    Untamed passion

    God's passion is Agape---the only tamed passion expressed from Him to us and from us to Him through the Lord Jesus Christ!!

    Untamed gives the impression that the Holy Spirit is "out of control" and that "anything goes" which leads to what Pete pointed out above in Judges 21:25 which reads, "In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes."-----when that happesn----buddy---you are headed for "untamed" trouble!!!

    Bro. David
     
  5. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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    StandingFirm I have a question, when you left and move over to different denomination did you have to go for more/different education?

    I am just curious how the process is in moving between different denominations.

    Thanks,

    Jamie
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Jamie,

    My education comes from the Word of God and Historical writings of that era. I did not go to any college for my doctrinal beliefs.

    Paul stated that He was not taught by man, but received his revelation from that one whose teachings are true, the Lord Himself.



    I was proven before the congregation and other ministers when I was first ordained. Preaching several times, answering questions, and counselling. The ordination came with the laying on of hands and prayer. (notice I did not say it came by the laying on of hands and prayer, but with).

    After years of study, the Lord began to make real to me what the tongues and the slaying in the Spirit doctrines were teaching was contrary to that which was in the Word of God.

    I moved out of that faith. I attended several Baptist fellowshiip, and was asked to minister in many of those churches. I currently speak from time to time in the Baptist fellowship I attend.

    Do I have a ordination in the Baptist faith? No, but my beliefs and my teaching line up with what is considered IFB faith. The IFB church I attend is where the Lord has placed me and uses me when He will.

    I am His servant.
     
    #6 standingfirminChrist, Sep 8, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2006
  7. StefanM

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    [FONT='Trebuchet MS',Verdana,sans-serif]From the article:

    "Normative? I’d like to ask Patterson and other SBC leaders a probing question. Shouldn’t we be more concerned with what is normative in the New Testament church than with maintaining a religious status quo? Is Jesus going to measure our spiritual fruit by a biblical standard or by a Baptist standard?"
    -----------
    I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. I'm sick of hearing what "Southern Baptists have always stood for." I want to know what the apostles stood for...period.
    [/FONT]
     
  8. StefanM

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    I fear you may just be assuming the worst because you disagree with him.

    There is no reason to insinuate that a Christian brother has a demon. Even if that was not your intention, your comment certainly does not constitute simple disagreement.

    As far as his reference to the Holy Spirit's "untamed passion," that doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit is completely "out of control." Is he out of our control? Most certainly! Can humanity tame God? Certainly not!

    Our God cannot be tamed!
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia
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    Do you mean we should be doing what the apostles did, like raising the dead, etc.?
     
  10. JamieinNH

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    Thanks StandingFirm for that explaination. In New England, there are a good amount of pastors that were in the Catholic faith, and now are Baptist ministers. I have often wondered what it took to move between denominations like that.

    thanks again,

    Jamie
     
  11. EdSutton

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    Personally, I'd like to know what exactly is a "Bapticostal"? Is it closer to a "Methyterian" or a "Nazarpalian"? :confused: Where does some of these names come from?

    How about "Disciple", "of the Way" or "Christian"? I'm pretty sure I know what book, inside a book, these names can be found in. :rolleyes: :thumbsup: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  12. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word
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    I reckon with many it would depend on the church one is switching over to as to if they are accepted as able to minister in that congregation.

    But, if God calls, He will equip. If He sends, He will equip.
     
  13. StefanM

    StefanM
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    Not necessarily, but our doctrine should be in line with the apostles. But if God wants to raise someone from the dead, I'm not going to call a business meeting over it. :)

    My statement was simply that we should use NT standards in evaluating church practice. Baptist tradition should not be our standard.
     
  14. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word
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    Hmmm, Ed yer beginning to scare me.

    You sure you ain't Bapticalian? or Charisolic?
     
  15. Marcia

    Marcia
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    But God is not wild either! This seems to be one of the ideas from John Eldridge's book, Wild At Heart, isn't it? One of the fruits of the HS is "self-control."

    We also read in Corinthians that God is a God of order. He is not a chaotic God.
     
  16. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word
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    I vote we raise Ol' Brother Johnny. His widder shore has been tipping the bottle a lot since that insurance money came in. :tongue3:
     
  17. Marcia

    Marcia
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    Can you clarify? Do you mean the NT?


    I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that. I think Grady builds a straw man and then knocks it down. People who do not believe in the sign gifts for today's church use the Bible to back this up. Charismatics may disagree but that doesn't mean the non-charismatics are using man's doctrine for their beliefs.

    BTW, Grady is editor of Charisma, a magazine which features (or at least it used to) the heretical word-faith teachers. So maybe Grady should give his own advice to himself - like use the Bible to evaluate teachings.
     
  18. StefanM

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    I've never read that book, so I can't comment on it.

    But as far as the other issues, you are absolutely correct. God is not disorderly or chaotic.

    Even so, the Holy Spirit can definitely take control of the situation even while being "untamed." (Cf. 1 Sam. 19:20-24). Saying that God is untamed does not make him a wild beast but a God who is absolutely under no restraint but his own.
     
  19. StefanM

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    Yes, I do mean the New Testament.

    As far as the author of the article goes, I make no attempt to defend his position. I disagree with his view of the baptism of the Holy Spirit (I believe it occurs at conversion and does not ever have to include speaking in tongues). I also believe that pentecostalism has some serious issues--word-faith being number one.

    NT standards aren't usually followed in pentecostal churches, so I have no problem taking them to task over it. I'm an equal-opportunity gadfly :).

    Concerning "sign gifts," my position is simple. I will only say that God appears not to bestow them in the same frequency as in the New Testament. If the Holy Spirit grants a gift, though, I will not reject the idea because of a belief that the gifts have ceased. IMO, saying that certain gifts have ceased entirely and permanently seems to limit God unintentionally. The cessationist arguments appeal a lot more to experience (or lack thereof) than cessationists want to let on.
     
  20. Marcia

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    Well, I just went and read this passage but I don't see the HS being untamed in it.

    I would prefer to say God is in control or is sovereign over saying he is untamed. Usually, the connotation of "untamed" is "wild" or "uncontrollable." That is just a reality of the English language as it's spoken now.

    Okay! :thumbs:

    I don't take a hard shell stance on this but I don't think anything we say limits God. What we say about God is either our concept of something, which doesn't limit God, or is based on the Bible, which is accurate. When we make a case for something based on the Bible, in context, and make reasonable conclusions, even though we might be wrong, it is not limiting God.
     

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