Baptised into what?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Emily, Jan 19, 2004.

  1. Emily

    Emily
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    At the church my husband will have us join soon, they baptise with a believers baptism, and once you are baptised, you are baptised into the body of Christ (in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit).. but when my husband gets baptised, he will still not be a member of that church until we take a membership class in March..

    My baptist friend seems to think that as soon as you are baptised, you are a member of the church you are baptised into.. and that anything other than that is unscriptural..

    I've read the passages about Baptism before, and I cant make sense of either one..

    a little help please?
     
  2. Don

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    What church is your husband getting baptized at?

    Baptism puts you in the like figure of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:4); and it also helps us put on a clean conscience of obedience (1 Peter 3:21). We get baptized into the body of Christ, along with all the other believers.

    Membership in a church is different than being a member of the body of Christ. The "politics" of running a church are biblically based, but wholly dependent upon men. Whereas it's very simple as to what it takes to be a member of the body of Christ, the local new testament church can, and often does, dictate what constitutes membership of that particular church.

    Unfortunately, like your other topic you posted, this can often lead into a "baptist brider" mindset as well.

    Your only question, Emily, is whether you're going to submit to your husband's leadership or not.
     
  3. C.S. Murphy

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    I am all for a new believer/member class but this type of thing bothers me. To follow Christ in baptism after having accepted Him as Saviour of course is adequate to be a part of the body of Christ. How dare a church put anything else on a believer. Have your training, even deny leadership roles , voting rights e.t.c. until after the training is completed but for goodness sakes don't withold membership in the body. The Bible gives discipline guidelines and they should be followed but I don't know of scripture that teaches this type of church policy.
    Murph
     
  4. Precepts

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    I can see Emily's point. Most don't realize these things until later in life.

    When a person is convicted of sin, then repents of that sin because of the sorrow they feel that Jesus died for their sins and is "saved'/"Born again", they are "baptized" into the Body of Christ. That being the spiritual body of believers.

    One isn't saved by water baptism, there is no baptismal regenration, only a "getting wet". Not that anything about water baptism is wrong, oh no, it is the matter of making it a public statement that a person is identifying with Christ, that He has washed them from their sins and they wish the world to know it.

    Blood washed regeneration is what the Holy Ghost accomplishes, cleansing us in the Blood of Jesus Christ, this is spiritual.

    Now on the part of the water baptism as a requisite for church membership, that is a Baptist practice, or ordinance of the church, which is definitely Biblical. As far as the class goes, now that might belooked at as unscriptural, but then the autonomy/ right to self govern, is the sole business of that assembly of believers. I can also say that if the class is scriptural in all aspects, teaching the "plan" of salvation straight from the Bible will help eliminate the possibilities of just a profession and not posessing real salvation. Many are deceived by the "simple, 123 repeat after me" easy believism, and never have been converted, though convicted, but not really repenting. That would justify the need for the class.

    We had a few members join the "Mail Box Club" a minisrty out of Madison, Ga. That little lesson booklet of scripture reading and memeorization dealt at the end of each lesson with being absolutely sure of your salvation. Now some might think this is wrong, but I feel it is necessary to confirm in one's own heart that they have truly been born again and on their way to heaven.

    It did seem to get monotomous after the fifth series of booklets and they still asked the same question.

    But Emily, the question I have for you is, "Are you certain the Lord saved you? Can you tell us when the Lord convicted you of your sin and you asked Him to save you and has He made a distinct change in your life? Are you a new "creature" in Christ, having new desires to please the Lord and not just please people?"

    I wouldn't worry about pleasing people, you can't please them all anyway, but your life turned over to God certainly please Him, and all along the Pilgrim pathway, walking in the light He gives, will most certainly please you as well!
     
  5. rbrent

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    The Holy Spirit baptizes you into the body of Christ (when you receive/believe on the Lord Jesus as your Savior). There is no water involved in that baptism.

    I Cor 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    John 3:5, 6 - Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit...That which is born of the flesh is flesh; (this is NOT water baptism - it is the physical birth from your mother - Job 38:8 - "Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?"

    John 3:6 again - and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. - Again - NO water involved here.

    Water baptism pictures what the Holy Spirit has already done in baptizing you into the body of Christ - I Cor 12:13.

    Water baptism does NOT put you into the local church.
    It merely gets you wet and is a public identification of the "baptizee" with Jesus Christ in His death, burial and resurrection.

    When you raise up, out of the water of baptism, that pictures what has already happened spiritually, (assuming you are saved), that you are NOW IN CHRIST and seated in heavenly places IN Christ Jesus.

    Ephesians 2:6 - And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
     
  6. Emily

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    Will I submit to my husband? ABSOLUTELY 100%.. even though he is definately not leading us to the Baptist church that I believe is the better, more scriptural church of the 2 that we have been teeter-tottering on for the past couple of months..


    Am I saved? Have I been convicted? etc etc..

    Well.. Here is the thing.. up until I joined this website, I certainly thought so... but now I am having trouble.

    When I gave my life to God, it was completely through faith.. I made a sober decision to follow after God, and learn about Him, and pray to Him, and repent of my sins, and read the bible, and live my life by example, and even share God with others at times.. I made a decision to go to church and make most of friends fellow believers and submit to my husband and love one another but not bow to relativism.. etc..

    my problem stems here..

    I've been going to a Baptist church for a few months with my brother in law and his wife. I LOVE this church.. When the preacher is preaching against sin, I get very convicted.. It can cut like a knife sometimes.. But, when they have the invitation, and I watch my sister in law cry her eyes out and praise God because He saved her... I feel extremely empty inside.. I can honestly say, I've never had a moment like that..

    I've never gotten down on my face and weeped and praised God for what He has done for me, and if I truly heart-believed that He has died such a brutal death, then why not? Why havent I?

    And then I come on here and we talk about the OSAS doctrine, and how I was unsure about it, and people bring up scripture about how God did a perfect work in me, and if I was truly saved, then I could never walk away..

    Why then.. does it still feel like I could walk away?

    I am utterly confused.. My Pastor says that if you dont know if you are saved, then you arent..

    I want to be saved SO BADLY.. I want to be saved more than anything in this whole entire world..

    but what if all of this praying and singing and reading and learning is all in vain? What if I am not one of those people who God choses to elect?
    Salvation is a free gift, but I dont know if I have gotten ahold of it yet.. I thought I did.. now Im not so sure... Its all pretty confusing to me, and now I feel like I am going through the motions.. I want to be convicted.. I want to know that I know that I know that I am saved...


    I hope this made sense and wasnt just emotional rambling.. I hate it when I sound like that.
     
  7. Precepts

    Precepts
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    Do I hear an echo? [​IMG]
     
  8. Precepts

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    Emily, understand this one thing for certain, God has NEVER turned anyone away desiring to be saved.

    Also, don't compare your salvation experience to some one elses's except Biblically. We can only posess a Biblical/Scriptural salvation.

    And on top of that, understand that God is not the author of confusion and He will not have it that you remain confused.

    I have dealt with those in your situation, I cannot tell you if you are saved or not, and even though your sister-in-law cries and all that, I couldn't tell you that she is saved. It is something you are going to have to get settled with the Lord, the sooner the better.

    Understand that we are saved by grace, through faith, and that not of ourselves.

    I quoted only a portion of your post intentionally. The part where you said you "thought I had gotten ahold of it", that could be the problem, you just need to let go of that doubt and realize, it's not you getting "ahold" of God, but Him getting ahold of you.

    The Lord would not have us living in doubt and defeat. That is what happens to us when we aren't sure if we're saved. God is God, and he will not let you stay in that condition. He is the God of all peace, and by your post you need peace.

    I'll be praying for you, Emily, I understand how you feel, but whatever you do, don't let it keep you from seeking God for relief of your doubt.

    As far as God's choosing, you don't have any control over that anyway. God chooses to save sinners, you provide the sinner, He's provided the Saviour! He saves "whosoever will". He's never turned a sinner away that comes to Him. He sees your desire, it's time to come to Him and get it settled, you do that, and you'll be sure, God guarantees it!

    You asked "what if?" it's all in vain, It's NEVER vain to seek after God! It is very wise of you to be doing the things you are, it's not in vain.

    You can PM me if you need to talk about this more privately, just click on the "PM" icon next to my screen name I'll be glad to help any further if I can.

    Brother Ricky
     
  9. Don

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    rbrent, thank you very much. I did not mean to make it sound like baptism plays any part in salvation, but re-reading, that's pretty much what I did.

    Emily, there's a parable about seeds in Matthew 13. Of course, the seed represents the Word.

    There's seed that's thrown by the way side; this represents those that have heard the Word, but it didn't take root, and the wicked one "catcheth away that which was sown in the heart".

    There's seed that falls among the stony places. This represents someone who hears the Word and rejoices; but the Word doesn't take root, and when troubles or persecution arises, especially in the area of church or religion, they prefer to fall away.

    There's seed that falls among the thorns. This represents those that are focused on the cares and riches of the world, and prefer to do the things of the world.

    And, of course, there's the good seed, which represents those that receive the Word and grow and are fruitful because of it.

    We must ask ourselves: Which kind of seed are we? I know that the first three kinds of seed represent those that aren't really saved, but merely heard the Word, and made half-hearted professions, not understanding fully what it was they were doing, because I find another verse in Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
     
  10. atestring

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    Emily ,
    Most Baptist Churches just assume that if you are born again and baptized in their Church that you would want to be a member of that particular church. The only reference that brings them to this conclusion is that :"it's just the way it has always been done."
    This is neither scriptural nor anti-scriptural.
    It is just tradition.
    It is also the reason that
    many Baptist Church's that have about 700 members only has a building that will seat 300 people and have about 175 people on Sunday Morning. ( the FBI couldn't find some of the other 525 people)
    Unless Church membership is understood by doing things such as membership classes ,Membership is not taken seriously because most people do not know what is expected of them.
     
  11. LauraB

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    It is to my understanding that being baptized in a particular church does not make you an automatic member.

    I know in our church we vote in members. One has to make his petition known that he would like to become a member then he is brought forth to all the members of the church and voted in or out.
     
  12. TheOliveBranch

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    I had always believed that Acts 4:41 was clear that those that were baptized were added as members of the church. To baptize, then let the person go on his way doesn't follow what verse 42 then states: that they continued in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, and in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. I was in a church that would baptize the person, after they talked with the pastor, and would leave the church, never to be seen again.
     
  13. Walls

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    I agree with what has been said already. When you are saved you are baptized into the body of Christ.

    In most Baptist churches I know of, if you are baptized there, then you automatically become a member. However, if you ever move that membership can be moved.

    I think it very wise to have classes for new converts. People who have lived out in the world have no idea how to live a Christian life, be a Christian husband/wife, parent, etc. As far as a new member class, I think that would all be covered in the above.

    I know at one time in my life, I wasn't ready to become a member of a church because, then you had to take part in nursery duty or visitation or whatever. If that is what a new member class does, I wouldn't want to take part. I believe the family comes first and then the church, not the other way around. I think that is the problem with these mega churches (another topic). But when my family was right and our hearts were right then as a family we helped in the ministries we felt the Lord was leading us in, rather than being told what to do in the church.

    Hope that helps!
     
  14. C.S. Murphy

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    Emily I want to thank Quickening spirits for his post and say that I agree 100%. I also want you to know that i am praying for you and hope that God will provide you that peace that passes all understanding.
    God Bless
    Murph
     

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