Baptism and salvation?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Preacher Ron, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. Preacher Ron

    Preacher Ron
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    I have had a lot of discussions with other people about baptism and salvation, I know that we should be baptized, just so you know I have been baptized.

    I was just wondering how many of you on this board think that baptism is crucial to receive salvation?

    If baptism is crucial to obtain salvation, what about those people who repent and get saved on their death bed, and was not able to be baptized?

    I won't to make my self clear, I am talking about water baptism.

    Preacher Ron
     
  2. Trotter

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    Baptism is an outward show of an inward change, nothing more, nothing less.

    Baptism (immersion...anything else is just playing in water :D ) is something that we ought to do, but it is not a requirement to be saved. The early church practiced it immediately after conversion (still a good idea, but with so many "confessing without possessing" I can see the reluctance), but I do not know of any Scripture that tells us that it was required to "seal the deal" (that is one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit).

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  3. menageriekeeper

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    I agree with Trotter.
     
  4. Trotter

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    Thank you.
     
  5. Johnv

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    I agree with Trotter's assessment. However, should we be concerned that we, who say that there's no salvific requirement for Baptism, also often jump up and down when it's anything besides immersion? Immersion is, of course, our way, as baptists. However, if we truly accept that baptism is simply an outward sign, then I don't think we should tell other non-baptist christian faiths that their mode of baptism is wrong.

    Just my $.02
     
  6. freeatlast

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    Ron,
    Baptism is an outward show of obediance of our inward turning to God in Christ signifying our acceptance into the body of Christ. If someone cannot be baptized they are still saved if they have come to repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. However on the reverse I would say that someone who refuses baptism after profession of Jesus, and I have seen this, is very possibly not saved. There certainlt may be exceptions depending on the reason for the refusal.
    One thing I have seen and totally disagee with is using baptism as a rite for acceptance into a church or denomination. I have been in several churches that would not accpet someone from another denomination as a member, even though the person was scriptually baptized, into the church unless they would be baptized again by the baptist church. To me this totally mocks the purpose of baptism and even tells the Lord that the denomination has greater standards then He does.
     
  7. uhdum

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    I agree with those who poasted here, but also say that in the New Testament, baptism was closely associated with repentance. It was unheard of for a Christian to be saved and then NOT be baptized... therefore, I believe that, even though baptism is not a requirement for salvation, all those who are truly saved (and who are able physically) will be baptized and will want to follow their Lord in this ordinance.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Hudum - what if, God forbid, someone is truly saved but refuses baptism? Does this indicate to you they are NOT truly saved?

    It is a fine line between your contention {"all those who are truly saved and who are able physically will be baptized") and those who feel baptism IS a part of salvation.
     
  9. freeatlast

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    Hello Dr. Bob,
    you asked;

    "Hudum - what if, God forbid, someone is truly saved but refuses baptism? Does this indicate to you they are NOT truly saved?"

    Well the structure of the question makes any answer void unless one says no. If they were truly saved there could be no question no matter what they did.

    However if any person comes claiming to accept Christ as Lord for salvation and then when given scripture showing that they are to follow in baptism and they refuse there would be a question in my mind. Certainly I would want some more information as to why, but without some justifiable reason for the refusal there would be a justifiable question of their conversion.
     
  10. Kiffin

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    Excellent answer. I think the Anabaptist leader Bathasar Hubmaier said (And I am quoting from my memory and paraphasing) "That if the Ethiopian Eunuch after professing to have Faith in Jesus, then would have refused Baptism, He would have shown himself to be no better off than Judas in regards to a Conversion."
     
  11. atestring

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    Baptism is symbolic of burial. When the old man dies he/she should be buried. If a body dies and is not buried then the body begins to stink.
    We do not bury a body to kill someone but we bury a body because someone is dead.
    I was buried in baptism after being saved and becoming dead to the power of sin and Praise God they did not leave me in the water but I came up out of the water which represents that not only was I dead to sin and buried with Jesus but also recieved the power of his rescurrection to walk in a new life.
    My baptism was so meaningful to me that I cannot understand anyone not wanting to be baptized.
     
  12. sparkle

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    This question may give away my naivete (did I spell that right :confused: ), but would someone give me some examples of reasons why a born again Christian would NOT want to be baptized? I just have never had the opportunity to ask anyone that question.
     
  13. Preacher Ron

    Preacher Ron
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    I can't think of any reason either, other than someone that is confined to the bed, or has a health condition that is severe enough to keep them from being baptized.

    I believe If they truly get saved they wood like to even if they are not able to.
     
  14. Trotter

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    I know of a couple of people who wouldn't be baptized because they would have to join the church to do so.

    I also know of one who has an extreme fear of water. She won't even get in a bathtub (but she does shower, thank God).

    I have heard of very few who refuse, but have heard of many who just never followed through. Most of these were never offered the opportunity, and many were saved somewhere besides a church.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  15. sparkle

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    Thanks Trotter. Your first sentence brings up then another question - why wouldn't they want to join the church?
     
  16. Trotter

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    They were not given a choice. It was, "If you join, we'll baptize you. If you won't, we won't."

    The main problem was that the people involved didn't see things the same as the particular churches did, and did not want to be a member of a church that they could not back.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  17. Plain Old Bill

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    We follow the Lord in Beleiver's baptism. That means we are saved already. For by grace are we saved through faith not of works lest ANY man should boast.Baptism is a work.Some people do not get baptized for a variety of reasons.After I got saved the first thing I did was go out and buy myself a Bible and start reading. The second thing I did was start attending church. The third thing I did was get baptized.If I had died on the way to buy my Bible would I have not made it in heavens door because I had not been baptized.This would have made the Work and sacrafice upon the cross by Jesus our Lord and Master a waste of time and a mockery.Salvation and baptism are two separate issues both important. You can be saved and not be baptized but you can't be baptized and not be saved.
     
  18. superdave

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    The confusion many times results from the lack of clear distinction between Spirit and Water baptism in the Bible. The interpretation of those verses makes a big difference. Spirit Baptism is required or more accurately coincidental with Salvation. Water baptism is the outward declaration that the inward Spirit baptism has occurred.

    I am working with a man who was saved about a year ago. He is struggling with Baptism. His family is Catholic, and if and when he gets baptised, it will create problems for him with his family. They have made that clear. They have no problem with him attending our church neccessarily, but if by getting re-baptized he 'abandons' his Catholic faith, they will essentially disown him. He recognizes the need for the public declaration of the change that has taken place in his heart, but he is a very cautious and "show me" type of person. He attended our church for a year, and studied and read extensively before accepting Christ. I am convinced it will take much of the same along with the direction and encouragement from others in our church to help him overcome the fear of his family. The fact that he recognizes the need to declare publicly the change in his life, demonstrates to me that he truly is saved. He has been a tremendous challenge to me in his lack of fear to share his faith with anyone who will listen, family, friends, coworkers, etc. Baptism is an important step, but it has nothing to do with his salvation per se. Just as all other good works are merely the fruit of Spirit filled living, not the means to the end.
     

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