Baptism

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Anja, May 27, 2003.

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Baptism

  1. Water baptism is unnecessary for Christians today

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  2. Water baptism is necessary for Christians today

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  1. Anja

    Anja
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    Firstly, I have not done extensive reading on this subject [​IMG]

    Do you think water baptism is unnecessary? Not only unnecessary for salvation, but unnecessary period, for a Christian?

    The reason I ask, is because the bible says:
    Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

    That "one" baptism, isn't that the baptsim of the Holy Spirit upon salvation? If you have a water baptism as well, doesn't that make 2 baptisms?

    I'm going out on a limb here, but is it possible that baptism was something that was reserved for the time of Acts, like speaking in tongues?

    I'd love to know your thoughts [​IMG]

    [ May 27, 2003, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Anja ]
     
  2. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause
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    The poll is too vague,water baptism is necessary as obedience unto the Lord's command as an outward testimony. Baptism of the Holy Ghost is at salvation.

    It's an outright shame that any Baptist should have to ask this question after being in a Baptist church for more than 6 months.

    In His Holy Service,

    Brother Ricky
     
  3. Anja

    Anja
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    Sorry if the poll is too vague. If anyone else finds this, please just ignore it and post a message.

    Thanks :(
     
  4. Bible Student

    Bible Student
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    The one baptism IS water baptism.

    It is important because we are commanded by the Lord to baptise:

    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, (show them about dalvation), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

    It was the practic of the church:

    "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized : and the same day there were added unto thne about three thousand souls.

    I believe water baptism identifies us with the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord.

    Richard [​IMG]
     
  5. RaptureReady

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    The baptism that you have mentioned deals with two types.

    1) Physical baptism
    2) Spiritual baptism

    As you mentioned in Eph. 4:5, this is a spiritual baptism that we partook of when we got saved.

    Matthew 28:19 deals with water baptism. Obedience.
     
  6. Mark Osgatharp

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    The only "spirit baptism" which ever occured was on the day of Pentecost at which time the church at Jerusalem was empowered for the work of evangelism by the Holy Spirit.

    The "one baptism" of Ephesians 4 is water baptism. It must be, for water baptism was commanded by Christ to be practiced "even unto the end of the world." Therefore it must be the "one baptism" of Ephesians or else there would be two baptisms.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Then how did Paul, some 30 years later with the church at Corinth (none of whom were at Pentecost), get Spirit Baptized? This is a question that is clearly answered by the text. Spirit baptism was not only on the day of Pentecost. It happens to every believer; it is how one gets into the body of Christ.

    Water baptism is necessary to be obedient. It is the outward symbol of the inward Spirit baptism. Where Spirit baptism brings one into the universal body of Christ, water baptism brings one into the local body of Christ.
     
  8. Anja

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    Thank you for all of your replies. I am still confused about the scripture where it says "one baptism" but there are two. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Istherenotacause

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    Don't be confused, follow the train of thought in Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    The main Character is the Lord, everything in succession after that is coming from the Lord.

    Water baptism and the Baptism of the Spirit/Holy Ghost are two entirely different things.

    Baptism means washing, washing by water. But the Holy Spirit baptizes/washes/cleanses with the Blood of Christ. Man can only baptize with water, the Spirit of God is the only One who can baptize you in the Blood of Jesus. Man could baptize you in blood, not the Blood of Jesus, and that would be SICK!

    The Lord only gives one baptism, man can baptize you until all the fish know your social security number! But then, you are only baptized in water once, Scripturally, because you only get saved once, then baptized.

    In His Holy Service,

    Brother Ricky
     
  10. Tonya R

    Tonya R
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    Pastor Larry,
    Where do you find that Paul received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

    Tonya
     
  11. Artimaeus

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    Matt 3:13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. 14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.

    Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 8:16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Acts 8:36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 37 [And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] 38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

    Acts 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

    Acts 10:47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

    Acts 16:15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.

    Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.

    Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

    I Peter 3:20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    Jesus thought it was necessary...
    Peter thought it was necessary...
    Paul thought it was necessary...
    Phillip thought it was necessary...

    Anja, Baptism is not necessary prior to salvation but it is absolutely necessary for maturity as a Christian. If you are unwilling to submit to the very first aspect of being a Christian then how can you move on to the next step. Baptism is a very real outward expression of a very real inward transformation. If you do not want to be identified with Jesus in his death, burial, and resurrection then you do not wish to be a Christian. Being a Christian means being a follower of Jesus Christ. It does not mean having a religious philosophy that has Christian aspects to it. Jesus was baptized and told his followers to baptize people. Is that not sufficient reason for baptism?
     
  12. Artimaeus

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    Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    There is only one baptism and that is when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit at the point of salvation. Water baptism isn't ANOTHER baptism but an outward expression of that inward baptism which has already taken place. It is like attending your high school graduation ceremony. You have already "Graduated" by completing your requirements but there is a outward expression of that fact for public display and announcing to the world that you have completed you requirements. There is only one "graduation". (This is just an analogy to illustrate one point.)
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    1 Cor 12:13: For by one Spirit, we were all baptized into one body.

    1. Paul uses "we," thereby including himself in the number of those who were baptized by one Spirit.

    2. There is only one body and all who are in that body (Paul included) were baptized by the one Spirit to get into that body.
     
  14. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause
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    Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    There is only one baptism and that is when we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit at the point of salvation. Water baptism isn't ANOTHER baptism but an outward expression of that inward baptism which has already taken place. It is like attending your high school graduation ceremony. You have already "Graduated" by completing your requirements but there is a outward expression of that fact for public display and announcing to the world that you have completed you requirements. There is only one "graduation". (This is just an analogy to illustrate one point.)
    </font>[/QUOTE]So that's what that baptismal certificate is for? I can't wait to get to Heaven to get the "real" one! [​IMG]
     
  15. Tonya R

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    Pastor Larry:
    It doesn't say "in" it says by. Meaning by the teachings of the Spirit "we" were led to believe and be immersed in water.

    Tonya
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    It says "en," (as in "en eni pneumati"), a word meaning "in" or "by." When Spirit baptism is talked about, it is always the word "en" (Gospels, 1 Cor, and Gal). A doctrine that distinguises "baptism in the Spirit" and "baptism by the Spirit" is an unbiblical doctrine. You make your distinction on the basis of the English text which Paul did not write. This is where studying the original languages is indispensable to holding right doctrine.
     
  17. Istherenotacause

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    It says "en," (as in "en eni pneumati"), a word meaning "in" or "by." When Spirit baptism is talked about, it is always the word "en" (Gospels, 1 Cor, and Gal). A doctrine that distinguises "baptism in the Spirit" and "baptism by the Spirit" is an unbiblical doctrine. You make your distinction on the basis of the English text which Paul did not write. This is where studying the original languages is indispensable to holding right doctrine. </font>[/QUOTE]Then how come I read my Bible and believe the same way you do about baptism of the Spirit, (which is performed "by" the Spirit), without knowing anything about Greek? Except for fetta cheese of course! [​IMG]
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    My guess is because you were taught correctly. Very few people get their doctrine straight from teh Bible. They get it from what their teachers teach about the Bible and then (hopefully) they go and compare it. Right doctrine from an English version is not impossible. But looking at the original language texts on an issue such as this is very helpful because it usually prevents these simple mistakes. However, it is not foolproof.
     
  19. Bible Student

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    I am not trying to be smart, I am just trying to understand, can anyone show me the all the scriptures to which this universal invisible Spiritual baptism put us in to this unseen body.

    Thanks
    Richard [​IMG]
     
  20. Istherenotacause

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    I wouldn't call the spirit of God "universal" in the sense so many use it now, like the "Universalists" do, but the main reference I can think of right now is when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, there was the voice from Heaven that declared,"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Then the Spirit in the form of a dove lighted upon His head. I believe this was of visual significance to those present that Jesus is the Head of the body and Spiritual baptism births us into the body of Christ, but now, water baptism only admits us into membership of the local indigenous, Baptist church, or otherwise for those who aren't willing to be called Baptists for whatever stupid reason!

    Now I got all this from the Spirit of God, not by any other teacher, except He that guides into all truht, the Comforter, Himself. I don't say that boastfully, but reverently and with all due respect and awe.

    In His Holy Service,

    Brother Ricky
     

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