baptist against baptist

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by massdak, Jan 22, 2003.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    i visited a web site call The Alliance of Baptists

    it is interesting that of all the sites of religion that i have visited liberal or conservative it is hard if not impossible to find the liberals statement of belief. the alliance of baptist does not have the usual statements of belief in which to expect. normally statements will read its doctrine of faith in Jesus Christ and outline the features of its tenants. how ever liberal web sites of religion are never this way they are none existent in most cases. the alliance of baptist reads this way>>What We Believe From its inception in early 1987, the Alliance has stood for those values that have distinguished the Baptist movement from its beginnings nearly four centuries ago - the freedom and accountability of every individual in matters of faith; the freedom of each congregation under the authority of Jesus Christ to determine its own ministry and mission; and religious freedom for all in relationship to the state.At the same time, we have acknowledged our interdependence as Baptists with the whole people of God regardless of denominational designation. As a result, we have been blessed beyond our wildest dreams with growing relationships with other Baptist bodies, the larger church and beyond.These are the values that have brought together a band of Baptist believers who are at once committed to historic principles and dedicated to the building of bridges between our own noble tradition and the rest of God's people.If these are your values as well, we hope you will consider this as our invitation to join us. <<< now read from a conservative statement of belief>>>
    We believe the Bible to be the inspired, infallible, authoritative Word of God. We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe in the deity of Jesus, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, and in our redemption through His shed blood.We believe in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His imminent, personal return in power and glory. We believe that regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential for the salvation of lost and sinful men. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit, by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life. We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost, the saved unto the resurrection of life, and the lost unto the resurrection of damnation.  We believe in the spiritual unity of all believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Baptists have always been divided into two camps - (1) those who claim we just believe the Bible and historic baptist positions, and (2) those who spell out the doctrinal beliefs and historic baptist positions.

    The first is always the liberal end, since they can interpret away just about anything and believe and teach just about anything since there is no absolute.

    The second is always on the conservative end, since they hold and defend absolute positions.

    Which is correct? Well, every fellowship of Baptist even in the formative years had "confessions" of the faith, DETAILING (read: conservative position on absolutes) belief and practice. London Confession, Philadelphia Confession, New Hampshire Confession et al.

    Even the SBC has the Baptist Faith and Message to assure general agreement on basic absolutes. Of course, the liberal (er, moderate) SBC'ers are bucking against such adherence to truth.

    And forming a group that will look like #1 above!! We just believe the Bible . . .

    Yup. Seen it all before. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    Massdak, did you happen to read our Covenant and Mission Statement? In addition, almost every Alliance church I've been in uses the Apostle's Creed in worship. How much more explicit of a statement of faith do you need?

    Joshua
     
  4. mark

    mark
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    The Apostles' Creed is a great profession of faith, however, I grew up in a Presybterian church in which almost no one was born-again and every week we recited the Apostles' Creed. You can :believe" all that without a personal relationship with Christ.
     
  5. massdak

    massdak
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    yes here it is from your liberal alliance&gt;&gt;&gt;

    To Keep Faith With Our Covenant, we:


    (1) Make the worship of God primary in all our gatherings.
    (2) Foster relationships within the Alliance and with other people of faith.

    (3) Create places of refuge and renewal for those who are wounded or ignored by the church.

    (4) Side with those who are poor.

    (5) Pursue justice with and for those who are oppressed.

    (6) Care for the earth.

    (7) Work for peace.

    (8) Honor wisdom and lifelong learning.

    (9) Hold ourselves accountable for equity, collegiality, and diversity.

    i will answer them

    1. which god do they worship

    2. mixing doctrine and error with error makes more error.

    3.those who practice lawlessness

    4.unfairly fight against the rich

    5.follow the worldly pc game plan

    6.put the earth ahead of the gosple more liberalism

    7. fight against conservative values

    8. believe science fiction over bible

    9.what ever that means?
     
  6. Caretaker

    Caretaker
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    http://www.ncccusa.org/98ga/alliance.html

    By the grace of God, our journey away from the old has turned into a pilgrimage toward the "new thing" Isaiah the prophet testified to centuries ago. For the Alliance of Baptists, God's new thing has included a rediscovery of our deeper roots in the freedom movement which marked the beginnings of the Baptist denomination in the 17th century. And, it has included the wonderful discovery that we are part of the larger church of Jesus Christ and the whole people of God. Out of that conviction, we gratefully and humbly seek membership in the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the U.S.A.
    The Alliance reports an estimated constituent membership of 60,000 persons with 125 churches and 200 clergy.

    http://www.mbla.org/vp4998.htm

    Alliance Task Force On Human Sexuality
    In 1992, the Alliance of Baptists formed a Task Force on Human Sexuality, primarily in response to two “pro-homosexuality” Alliance of Baptists churches from North Carolina - Binkley Memorial Baptist Church which licensed a homosexual divinity student to the Gospel ministry and Pullen Memorial Baptist Church which performed a “gay marriage.” (Baptist Press, June 11, 1992)
    In support of “gay marriage,” the Task Force report states:

    We encourage churches to welcome all persons without regard to sexual orientation or marital status into the life of the congregation and to recognize that there probably are persons of a same-sex orientation already present and involved within the life of most congregations.
    We encourage churches to lift up the ideal of covenant - that is, challenging persons, whether heterosexual or same-sex oriented, to express sexual intimacy within the covenant context of a committed, monogamous relationship. One example of that support could be a ritual of covenant-making between the couple, the couple and God, and the couple and the Christian community.(emphasis ours)

    Writing in the October 13, 1994 issue of the CBF-funded Baptists Today in support of the Report of the Task Force on Human Sexuality, Alliance executive director Stan Hastey stated that “our position is clear” regarding “those whose sexual orientation is homosexual, bisexual or anything else.” He further states:

    Some will now say that we are pro-gay. And while some Alliance people will object, I want you to know I won’t be among them… n the Alliance, we have known of some of our gay constituency and have sought to create a welcoming atmosphere. My strongly held view has been and will remain that this fact of Alliance life is not something to hide or run away from but to welcome and celebrate. (emphasis ours

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Romans 1:
    18
    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19
    Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    21
    Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    22
    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
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    And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    24
    Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25
    Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26
    For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27
    And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28
    And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29
    Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30
    Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31
    Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32
    Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
     
  7. Bible-belted

    Bible-belted
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    There is a good reason why liberal baptists don't have real confessions of faith.

    They exalt the right of the individual to interpret the Word according to conscience above all other tenets of baptist life (actually IMO they use soul liberty as a hedge against the autorty of the Bible, and then baptise it by claiming that they are merely acting under the Lordship of Christ). They prize and are proud of the fact that they do not circumscribe their beliefs, saying, that they have no creed but the Bible. They act like that puts them in line with historic baptist thought, but of course that is not so. Historically when baptists made that claim they had doctrines in mind; they did not use the slogan as a reason to resist naming doctrines.
     
  8. massdak

    massdak
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    is the alliance being hypocritical by not welcoming all deviant sinful behavior and life styles of sin just as welcome
    how about pedophiles or serial killers?
     
  9. Rev. Joshua

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    So, the Alliance has a statement that emphasizes a personal relationship with Christ and people say "there's no traditional creed here." I point out that most Alliance churches I know use the Apostle's Creed, and someone points out "that's no guarantee of a personal relationship with Christ."

    I know that silly, two-dimensional stereotypes are much easier to present and ridicule - but they are far from the reality of what Alliance churches and members are like.

    Joshua
     
  10. Caretaker

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    The Alliance of Baptist Churches would appear to share more in common with organizations such as the United Church of Christ, the Society of Friends, the majority of the Homosexual Community Churches, etc., then they do with Baptist Churches.

    To license a homosexual to the pulpit, to sanction a homosexual union. This is a degeneration into the most vile apostasy, and the name Baptist should be removed from their title.
     
  11. massdak

    massdak
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    it is sad to say that a person could actually take the alliance of baptist and evangelize them since they have a group membership near 60,000. maybe someone should develop a ministry to reach these people with the gospel and scripture pointing out the error of their way.
     
  12. Rev. Joshua

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    massdak, those are old numbers. I believe membership has increased noticeably over the past six years. Nevertheless, I'm sure the seminary professors, ministers, and biblical scholars who make up the heart of the Alliance would be delighted to hear from you if you wish to present your case.

    The logic of "you think homosexuality is not a sin so you must not believe the 'true' gospel" amazes me.

    Joshua

    [ January 23, 2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Joshua ]
     
  13. Shqippy

    Shqippy
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    As a former Baptist missionary and current Alliance supporter, I sure hope somebody will point out the error of my ways.
     
  14. massdak

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    these seminary professrs, ministers, and biblical scholars should be marked and avoided. but i would like a complete e-mail membership assemblage so i could contact them and provide biblical proof of thier teachers error.
     
  15. Rev. Joshua

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    massdak, you can't even convice me. How do you expect to convince them?

    Joshua
     
  16. rhoneycutt

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    Oh, the old pedophile/serial killer argument. How original! Hey Massdak, thanks for reminding me why I never post here anymore sheesh...
    By the way if you do email the "assemblage" please remove my email address from your "message", I get enough junk in my inbox now we can read your drivel here please don't send it to me.

    Russell

    [ January 24, 2003, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: rhoneycutt ]
     
  17. massdak

    massdak
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    be amazed joshua be very amazed, but i am very suspect of all your liberal heros of seminary professors, ministers, and biblical scholars who make up the heart of the Alliance. you see if one comes to Christ and not being able to admit or want forgiveness of a sin that they themselves do not count as being sin and justify it in their own mind as just another death style choice, then i can see where they are not the sinners that Christ came to call but they are the self righteous liberals.
    so if they continue to trample Gods doctrine and commandments and their own sin as not sinful or punishable, then go ahead, since being warned all we can do now is watch all those liberal religionist swan dive straight into the abyss
     
  18. Rev. Joshua

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    massdak,

    So, in your opinion, the only real Christians are those who, regardless of the era in which they lived, believe exactly what you do about which actions are sinful and which are not?

    Joshua
     
  19. Mrs KJV

    Mrs KJV
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    I don't know any Baptist churches that use the Apostles Creed. Why would they?
     
  20. BrianT

    BrianT
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    Our church has used it a few times in the past.

    Why not? It's good stuff! [​IMG]
     

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