Baptist and Freemasonry

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro Tony, Feb 2, 2004.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    I am new to this board and have enjoyed reading the topics and responses in the different areas. I don't know if this issue has been dealt with before, if it has someone may tell me where I can read about it. Several years ago the Southern Baptist Convention dealt with the issue of freemasonary and biblical Christianity. They came to the conclusion that the two were not compatible. Then they really (IMO) dropped the ball and said they would make no statement about individual SB involved in Masonry but would leave it up to the individual person. Our church dealt with the issue and did an indepth study and found Freemasonry to be completely imcompatible with biblical Christianity. Our church acted to declare that no one involved in freemasonry could hold a leadership office or teach in our church. Needless to say many left, but not before trying to get rid of the pastor (me). The Lord has blessed as I believe He always does when we trust Him and stand on His Word. We had one man who was a 45 year member of the Lodge renounce his membership (PTL)! [​IMG] Let me know of some of your experiences and viewpoints. It is nice to be able to discuss these issues.
    PS..The above is just an outline of what happened at our church, there was much more that went on, but space does not permit full account.
     
  2. Walls

    Walls
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    Praise the Lord!
     
  3. gb93433

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    Perhaps you do know that up until 1992 the model for the RA's initiation was almost exactly like free masonry. It was modelled after that. I can remember when the books were pulled from the shelf.

    I find it interesting about what you said about those who tried to get rid of you. They were successful with me when I pastored a SBC not far from you. The people invited the Mormon bishop to preach at the CBMc in the community. SWo as pastors we ganged up on that and some of the deacons made life quite rought for me from that point on.

    Plus the deacons (against my advice) sought to invest almost all of the tithe money in the BFA and you know what happened to that as well.
     
  4. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    gb,

    I was aware of the RA manual and the fact that the initiation cerimony came right out of freemasonry. The man who wrote the initiation ceremony and had a big part in the establishment of the RAs was Ivyloy (sp) Bishop. He was one of my professors at the Baptist University I attended. As a student I certainly did not know much about freemasonry. Once I studied it, my first reaction was that there could not be any in the Baptist Church. Was I ever staggered by the number of men who are involved throughout the denomination. Although my church stood for the truth, the state and associational leaders would not. I was the chairman of one of the main boards in the state. After my stand I am not even talked, have not been asked to serve, and am never asked to preach (this all happened some six years ago). When I tried to bring the issue up at a state convention the group that decides what is discussed would not let it get on the floor. They really have done me a favor as it has freed up my time to spend on the field and ministering to the people God has led to our church. I know of other pastors who have gone through what you have, I know God will reward you for your faithfulness.

    By the way when I went through this I sent a letter out to every SBC church in our state. I received one letter that told me I should not bother. Out of the 400+ letters I sent that was the only response. :(

    Keep the faith God is still in control!

    Bro Tony
     
  5. go2church

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    I haven't ever been a Mason, nor looked into joining. I would have to start looking into it if asked to join. I do however have and have had several men in my church who are (were) Masons and wouldn't trade them for anything. I think one of the men who investigated the Masons for the SBC ended up joining, for whatever that is worth. It just doesn't seem to be something that has come up in the places I have ministered. BTW most of these men were older if that means anything.
     
  6. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    gotochurch,

    I believe you are correct when you say that one of the investigators for the SBC into freemasonry latter joined the craft. It also seems to be true that most masons are elderly and seem for the most part to be nice gentlemen. That is in my case, until you ask honest questions about masonry and all you receive is vague answers. They are bound by their oaths not to reveal what is taught and goes on in the lodge. They will tell you that you have to be recommended and then apply, then take the oath and then you can see what happens in the lodge. Unfortunately that only gets you into the blue lodge (which consists of the first three degrees) and there is still much in the upper degrees kept from you. In my church these masons would call each other brother but would not call me brother, just preacher or some would say reverend.

    While you haven't been personally touched by this group of men, at least not as you know. The fact that they are in your church, and it what sounds like in leadership, indicates that there is leaven in the body. Remember it only takes a little leaven to leaven the whole. You cannot have doctrines of demons and the Doctrine of Christ coexisting. Some may say that is too strong. I assure you it is not, any objective examination of freemasonry will reveal it for what it is and the source from which it came.

    Remain strong, remain holy unto the Lord. There are wolves among the sheep looking like sheep. May God bless you as you seek Him.

    Bro Tony
     
  7. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    I know an individual, who claims to be a believer, who was just accepted into the masons. It seems that they are very anxious to get some young blood into the organization and will take anyone. This person has very poor character and told me that the main reason he joined was that he heard that when you get into any kind of trouble they will help you. (This person has claimed personal bancruptcy about 4 times and has a couple of DUIs.)
    I dont think the masons are what they used to be.
     
  8. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    It is true, they will stand up for their own. Unfortunately, they will do this right or wrong and in my experience will stand for a brother mason before standing for a brother in Christ or for Christ and His Truth. They will openly state that they do not recruit. That may be the official party line, but again by personal experience these men in my church tried to recruit me.

    Remember that which is dead at the roots cannot bring life. The roots of freemasonry has nothing whatsoever to do with biblical Christianity and any professing Christian should denounce it, leave it or stay away from it altogether.

    Bro Tony
     
  9. tnelson

    tnelson
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    As one that once was a 32degree, freemasonry is just another from of Mormanisam. ( doctrin of demons)

    I give God the praise for getting me out and letting me see what I had gotten into.

    by HIS GRACE
    mike
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Well stated, Tony ;)
     
  11. Ben W

    Ben W
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    I have learnt a few things about Freemsasontry after having spent some time condemning them.

    One thing that I have learnt is that most stuff reported about them is false. They do not "worship satan" nor have any power over governments etc etc. All of which are falsified accounts made to sell books.

    Why I didnt like masons the most was the writings of Albert Pike claiming that Lucifer was God, pretty scary stuff until I discovered that the letters in question were not even proved to be authentic, and that the masons openly state that Pike is no spokesperson for them. It is like saying that Herbert Armstrong of the Worldwide COG is a spokesman for the Christian Church. A ridiculous notion.

    There are no secrets in Freemasonry, the so called secret 33rd degree along with all the others are published in numerous places online and in librarys. It occured to me that if the 33rd degree masons were really into the occult, wouldent that part of the degree be published in the anti type literature?

    Another thing I have considered is how it feels for a Freemason to be told to choose between masonry and his church. That is at best mean. Freemasons that I have met are usually some of the nicest people in churches and I dont think that attaching stigmas to them is at all fair.

    Freemasons swear an oath, various christians have a problem with that, yet I have sworn on the Bible in a court before and dont see that doing that was a problem for me.

    As I see it there are two sides to the argument, and it is all to easy to make seeping statements. If Freemasonry is said to be bad for Christians then it is not unreasonable to ask for proven facts rather than unsubstanciated allegations.
     
  12. lindell dunning1

    lindell dunning1
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    Dear Friend,
    I can agree with you that many of the Masons are delightful people,full of compassion and good works. My friend drives a Van to Chicago now and then to take kids to the Shriners Hospital there. Many of them put their money where their mouth is and that is an admirable characteristic in any man,but in a Mason get together,they declare that the Bible,the Koran,and other religions of the world are on equal par with the Lord God Almighty.
    I do not have an axe to grind nor do I elevate my religious beliefs higher than the next man,he is entitled to follow the dictates of his conscience,and he should. The friction arises because there isn't room in the heart of man for more than One God. If you are acquainted with the writings of the Old Testament,then you are aware that the Lord's controversy and judgement on His people Israel was that they were always serving other gods along side of or in the place of Him.
    Can you with a clear conscience get on your knees and declare to the Lord that you believe the God of Abraham and Isaac is the same as Allah in the Koran and will worship Him as such?
    For me that is the bottom line. If it wasn't for this particular notion of theirs about the equality of religions,then perhaps I could be tolerant towards them.
     
  13. Bro Tony

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    Lets be careful to keep on issue here. The issue is not do some masonic group do benevolent things, that is without argument. In our area the Mormon Church is huge and they do many benevolent things and have great families and are nice people. But, I would not have them speak in my church. Their doctrine is not compadable with Christianity. The masonic teachings are not compadable with Christianity. It has been said that all the statements against freemasonry has been made up to sell books. That is a false statement and brings reproach on the fine Christian men who have been set free from masonry adn simply want to share their testimony that others might know the truth. One has said he has investigated masonry and finds nothing wrong with it. I would suggest continuing your investigation. If you don't believe it is a society of secrets, then get several practicing freemasons together and ask them straight out about the lodge and what goes on in there and what they teach. I guarantee you will not get a straight answer.

    What is important is what we allow in the church. The Lord has commanded us to remained stain-free and undefiled. Freemasonry is a false system of beliefs that clear blasphemes God. Unfortunately far too many Christians refuse to see the reality of this false system and the harm it has done in the church.
     
  14. HankD

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    I don't know the official Mason teachings. I am not a mason, never have been, but here is what I know:

    When I was a young teenager in New Orleans, my step-father was arrested for counterfeiting and later convicted. The authorities took all that we had. My mother had 4 other children, We were destitute. The masons somehow heard of our plight.

    They arranged for us to get into the housing project (not good but better than homeless) for next to nothing, they brought us food and clothing, they gave us some helpful names and connected us with the Salvation Army and an official of the Catholic Church who dispensed food and clothing through St. Vincent DePaul.

    HankD
     
  15. GrannyGumbo

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    It's really refreshing to find an SBC pastor take a stand like this. In our area, not only are we surrounded by "tongue-babblers", but the Masonic Lodge, as well.

    Here is one sight we find useful: http://www.ephesians5-11.org/
     
  16. Walls

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    Hank, did any of your family join the Masons?
     
  17. HankD

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    No, I believe one of the social workers who knew of our case gave them our name.

    I believe they were Shriners, high ranking Masons,

    My step-father's family might have had a Mason background being from the aristocratic south.

    HankD
     
  18. mortenview

    mortenview
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    My dad was a 32nd degree mason and a shriner. I was asked to join many times and declined each time.

    Yes, they do a lot of good deeds. They are a religion of good works. Children's hospital etc.

    I have several writings on masonary - Hyrum -

    Our church by laws do not allow any one to become a member if they are a member of any lodge. If one should join, we will discipline them out of the church.

    JBO = Jehovah - Osirus - Baal - 3 gods of masonary.

    Their oaths etc. are ungodly and un Scriptural.
    You can join the line of Jewish rite - the Moslem rite etc.

    Notice the symbols on the Shrine Mosque ... That is MOSQUE --- I am not saying they are nor become moslems but they use the symbols etc from that ungodly religion.

    hanging tow ropes around one's neck - one pant leg on & one off etc. going through childish initiations ... taking oaths to have your tongue cut out if you reveal any of the secrets of the lodge etc. etc.

    I am brief here ... but the lodge is not Christian any more than the mormans - or any other cult

    Mortenview
     

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