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Baptist and Presbyterian Denominations.

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ben W, Jul 19, 2004.

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  1. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    There seem to be quite a number of different Baptist Denominations. Compared to us, do the Presbyterians have similar splits of denominations? Or are we the most prolific group that has denominations under the one name?
     
    #1 Ben W, Jul 19, 2004
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    One consideration for the Presbyterians is that in the States the title of the local meeting house was in the denomination's name not in the name of the local congregation. It's the same situation as American and Canadian Episcopalians are experiencing in 2004. Also, the Presby's are a confessional church. So, documents like the Westminister Confession govern their belief system. Add to that the Presby system of presbyteries, synods and general assemblies.
     
    #2 Squire Robertsson, Jul 19, 2004
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I think the Baptists are still ahead on that one.

    U.S. Presbyterian groups include:

    Presbyterian Church in the USA (2.4 million members)

    Presbyterian Church in America (split from the PC-USA in 1973 and holds strictly to the Westminister Confession, about 300,000 members. It opposes ordination of women.)

    Evangelical Presbyterian Church (formed by dissidents from the north and south prior to formation of the PC-USA; about 70,000 members; adheres to the Westminister Confession; ordination of women is not considered to be an area of essential doctrine.)

    Orthodox Presbyterian Church (founded in 1936 by conservatives upset with doctrinal trends in the PC-USA foreign mission board; about 22,000 members; holds to the Westminster Confession as amended for American churches. It opposes ordination of women.)

    Cumberland Presbyterian Church (founded as a result of the Cane Ridge revival that began the Stone-Campbell movements; about 83,000 members; rejects Westminister Confession and holds to unlimited atonement; it was among the first Presbyterian groups to ordain women.)

    Bible Presbyterian Church (formed about the same time as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, it has about 10,000 members; fundamental and anti-ecumenical, considers the PC-USA apostate; adheres to the Westminister Confession.)

    Well, that's a few, at least.
     
    #3 rsr, Jul 19, 2004
  4. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    I think that there are three Presbyterian Denominations in Australia, being Presbyterian, Reformed Prebyterian and one lot called the Bible Presbyterian Church.

    I always thought thought that the Presbyterians were from the Reformed Movement, not neccessaraly the Protestant movement?
     
    #4 Ben W, Jul 20, 2004
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Technically, the "Protestants" were the German nobility who in 1529 protested against the Edict of Worms. In a broader sense (one that has been used for centuries) "Protestant" has been used to refer to both the Lutherans and all other Reformed traditions.
     
    #5 rsr, Jul 20, 2004
  6. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    I'de have to agree Baptist lead the way as far as internal splits go. I've nevery heard of an Assembly of God church have a split; in my town anyway.
     
    #6 DeclareHim, Jul 27, 2004
  7. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

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    The Oneness heresey split from them many years ago. Modern Showman T. D Jakes "Shakes" is one of 'em. :eek:
     
    #7 Pastor KevinR, Jul 28, 2004
  8. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    I know here in our area, the PCA-USA is the dominant force having many churches. Cumberland Presby's are second, and then PCA's are last having only one church in our immediate area. My wife and I considered joining them, as I had attended a Presby church in Peoria Illinois under Dr. Bruce Dunn (Bapist Educated and an excellent pastor until the Lord called him home). I think though that Baptist have far more "sects" in them than the Presby's!

    AVL1984
     
    #8 AVL1984, Aug 23, 2004
  9. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    Evangelical Presby's are alot like Baptists.
     
    #9 SaggyWoman, Sep 20, 2004
  10. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly Active Member

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    That's true. Westminster Seminary is a big deal around here. But the Presbyterians still insist on sprinklin' babies, though.
     
    #10 Debby in Philly, Sep 20, 2004
  11. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    That's right. Kind of goes against being evangelical.
     
    #11 SaggyWoman, Sep 20, 2004
  12. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    Sprinkling or immersion has absolutely no bearing on the label "evangelical." This simply means they aren't baptist.

    Interestingly enough, General Baptists (General Association of General Baptists) have the Cumberland Presbyterians to thank for a completed move to Arminian theology.

    Grace and Peace, Danny
     
    #12 Daniel Dunivan, Sep 24, 2004
  13. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Few can beat Dutch hypercalvinism when it comes to churchsplits.
    The following is a reasonably complete list from 1961.
    Remember that Calvinism in my country started out as the state church and that all denoms listed are the products of infighting. Also remember that my country has a tiny population compared to the USA.

    De Nederlands Hervormde Kerk
    De Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland
    De Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland
    De Christelijke Gereformeerde Gemeenten
    De Kruisgemeenten
    De Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland en Noord-Amerika
    De Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland
    Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland
    Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeenten
    De Remonstrantse Broederschap
    De Gereformeerd Vrijgemaakte Kerk
    De Nederlandse Hervormde Zendingsgemeente te Doetinchem
    De Nederduits Hervormde Beweging de Biltsche Kapel
    De Vrije Hervormde Gemeente te Brummen
    De Vrije Hervormde Gemeente te Kampen
    De Vrije Evangelische Gereformeerde Gemeente tot verbreiding der Waarheide te Alkmaar
    De Vrije Gerformeerde Kerk van Wolvega
    De Nederduits Gereformeerde Gemeente te Oosterland
    De Vrije Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeente te Oldebroek
    De Vrije Oud-Gereformeerde Gemeente te Kampen

    20 different denominations.
     
    #13 mioque, Sep 27, 2004
  14. Daniel Dunivan

    Daniel Dunivan New Member

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    mioque,

    "Hervormde" translates as "reformed" (right?)?
    What about "Gereformeerde"?

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
    #14 Daniel Dunivan, Sep 27, 2004
  15. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    "What about "Gereformeerde"? "
    "
    That also translates as "reformed".
     
    #15 mioque, Sep 28, 2004
  16. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    What are the differences then in the usages? I know in same situation in English useing two different words would be the result of different shades meaning.
     
    #16 Squire Robertsson, Sep 28, 2004
  17. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Last spring, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Netherlands Reformed Church and Reformed Churches in the Netherlands merged into the Protestant Church in the Netherlands.

    Faced with the merger, some Netherlands Reformed Church congregations formed the Restored Netherlands Reformed Church, while some former Reformed Churches in the Netherlands congregations have formed the Prolonged Reformed Churches in the Netherlands. (Great name, huh?)
     
    #17 rsr, Sep 28, 2004
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    RSR, interestingly, the oldest protestant denomination in the US in continuous existence is the Reformed Church in America, which was originally founded as the Dutch Reformed Church (Founded in New Amsterdam in 1628). It was a branch of the Nederlands Hervormde Kerk (Reformed Church of the Netherlands). The first church, Marble Collegiate Church of 1628, is still in existence with an active congregation in downtown New York City.

    The RCA has us Baptists beat in the US by several years.
     
    #18 Johnv, Sep 28, 2004
  19. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Squire Robertsson
    "What are the differences then in the usages?"
    "
    Gereformeerd has a more conservative sound than Hervormd.
    In practice however the Hervormde Kerk was in recent years more conservative than the Gereformeerde Kerk.
    Both of them were (with the exception of one branch of the Hervormde kerk) decidedly more liberal than the SBC.
    On the other hand the most conservative Calvinist churches in my country make some of the most hardline IFB churches in the US look like lukewarm liberals.
     
    #19 mioque, Sep 28, 2004
  20. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    Interesting detail on the formation of the Protestant Church in the Netherlands. If the local churches involved in the merger had financial troubles, coming together turned out to be a piece of cake, even if the doctrinal situation looked ugly on paper. If not, great difficulty all around, even if the churches involved were doctrinally extremely close.
     
    #20 mioque, Sep 28, 2004
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