Baptist Beliefs Verses Catholic Beliefs

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by amixedupmom, Jun 26, 2004.

  1. amixedupmom

    amixedupmom
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    Let's compare the two. I was raised catholic and I think that it's not what some say.

    Both Churches have been rocked by scandals.

    But, If there are any Catholic members on this board. I would like to here the answers to these questions. I would also like to get the Baptist Views.

    1. What does salvation cost you ?


    2. How are you saved?


    3. Who forgives your sins?


    4. Who do you worship? (Saints, Mary, ect)


    To be honest I think that we will all be surprised by the results. Maybe I should have made this a poll BUT, I want to hear explinations to thier answers and not simply a yes or no.

    Thank you [​IMG]

    God Bless you
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    1. What does salvation cost you ?
    Nothing

    2. How are you saved?
    By faith in Jesus Christ through His grace alone. Full stop.

    3. Who forgives your sins?
    God

    4. Who do you worship? (Saints, Mary, ect)
    God
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    When I talk to Catholics, I always stress two major differences: 1) authority--we believe in the authority of God in his word; they believe in teh authority of the church and the pope.

    2) how one gets to God--we believe that salvation in Scripture is by grace alone through faith alone through Christ alone. They believe that a person is saved by infused righteousness leading to works of merit that they attribute to Christ. Here, the main issue is the biblical teaching of imputed righteousness vs. the Catholic teaching of infused righteousness. While catholics are quick to point out that "alone" never appears with faith in SCripture, they do so only by virtue of a concordance search, not by virtue of actual doctrinal teaching. In quite an interesting irony, they refuse to believe faith alone because "Scripture doesn't say it." All the while they believe "the pope is the vicar of Christ" while Scripture doesn't say it. In other words, for them, the Bible is a convenient tool when they need it, and all too often something to be discarded when they do not.

    Until relatively recent years (post Vatican II), the differences were well known and widely accepted. They had existed for centuries and both parties knew they were black and white issues ... there was no middle ground. In recent years, there has been an unfortunate capitulation by both sides that has led to the blurring of what should be a distinct line.

    These are the two foundational issue from which all others spring.
     
  4. BobRyan

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    We have to be explicit when asking these questions.

    #1. Do you pay for any of your own sins? Will any who go to heaven - pay for some of their own sins prior to entering heaven. Will they pay for those sins after they die?

    #2. What happens to anyone who does not choose to be born again and accept Christ as their savior before they die?

    #3. Can Baptists be saved under the Gospel New Covenant (according to the RCC) or is the Gospel New Covenant "confined" to the RC mass. When Christ said this is "The New Covenant in My Blood" is it just the RC mass?

    #4. Is there only one mediator between God and man in heaven?

    #5. Is Mary all powerful? Is she the queen of heaven? was She sinless like Christ?

    #6. Is Mary mankind's co-redeemer, co-mediator with Christ?

    #7. Where NT pastors called priests in the first century? Did they "refuse to be called priests"?

    #8. How many "wicked popes" took power according to the RCC? Did any of them speak "Excathedra"? How many popes prior to the 1700's prefaced ANY statement they made with "Excathedra"??

    #9. Was the RCC right to torture and kill Christians in the dark ages?

    #10. Has the RCC ever confessed to her part in the Dark Ages? Did she burn Bibles, torture Christians, "exterminate" entire people groups?

    #11. Was Peter correct when HE said that Baptism "Saves you...in the appeal to God for a clean conscience"? If so - can babies make that appeal? IF not - are they saved in sprinkling?

    #12. Does the priest have magic powers to forgive sin and create God in the Eucharist? IF not - then is it correct to say that an excommunicated priest who actually is in error - does not have that "power"?

    #13. Do you test all of your traditions "sola scriptura" to see "IF" they are in harmony with scripture. If so - would RC messages boards welcome that kind of dialog?

    #14. Is it right for Christians to insist on praying directly to God?

    #15. IS there any place in all of scripture where God's people are told to pray to the dead, pray to Mary or pray to saints who have died? What is necromancy?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. amixedupmom

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    We have to be explicit when asking these questions.

    #1. Do you pay for any of your own sins? Will any who go to heaven - pay for some of their own sins prior to entering heaven. Will they pay for those sins after they die?
    --------------------
    No we don't. no. no.
    --------------------
    #2. What happens to anyone who does not choose to be born again and accept Christ as their savior before they die?
    ----------------------
    They will be forever damned to the lake of fire
    ----------------------

    #3. Can Baptists be saved under the Gospel New Covenant (according to the RCC) or is the Gospel New Covenant "confined" to the RC mass. When Christ said this is "The New Covenant in My Blood" is it just the RC mass?
    ---------------------
    ANYONE can be saved as long as they believe in Jesus Christ. AS long as they BELIEVE with thier heart he died for them, nothing else is required
    ------------------------

    #4. Is there only one mediator between God and man in heaven?
    --------------------
    Jesus Christ
    ---------------------
    #5. Is Mary all powerful? Is she the queen of heaven? was She sinless like Christ?
    -------------------------
    no. no. no
    -------------------------

    #6. Is Mary mankind's co-redeemer, co-mediator with Christ?
    -----------------
    no she was his mother, she has a STRONG testimony, but that's it
    -------------------------
    #7. Where NT pastors called priests in the first century? Did they "refuse to be called priests"?
    ---------------------------
    I have no clue on this
    ---------------------------

    #8. How many "wicked popes" took power according to the RCC? Did any of them speak "Excathedra"? How many popes prior to the 1700's prefaced ANY statement they made with "Excathedra"??
    ------------------------
    popes are men . HUMAN men .... there is no diffrence in them or any other men. And I beleive that EACH faith, has had it's "Wicked pastors, priests, popes, bishops, decons ext"
    -----------------------------
    #9. Was the RCC right to torture and kill Christians in the dark ages?
    -------------------
    no
    -------------------------

    #10. Has the RCC ever confessed to her part in the Dark Ages? Did she burn Bibles, torture Christians, "exterminate" entire people groups?

    -------------------------
    it only matters that those involved confess to God.
    ---------------------------

    #11. Was Peter correct when HE said that Baptism "Saves you...in the appeal to God for a clean conscience"? If so - can babies make that appeal? IF not - are they saved in sprinkling?
    -------------------------------
    Babies are sinless. Children are not penalized until they become self aware
    ---------------------------

    #12. Does the priest have magic powers to forgive sin and create God in the Eucharist? IF not - then is it correct to say that an excommunicated priest who actually is in error - does not have that "power"?
    ------------------------
    no, the power is be obedience of their followers not any Devine given power
    ----------------------------

    #13. Do you test all of your traditions "sola scriptura" to see "IF" they are in harmony with scripture. If so - would RC messages boards welcome that kind of dialog?
    ----------------------------
    I try , I don't know we'd have to ask
    --------------------------------
    #14. Is it right for Christians to insist on praying directly to God?
    -------------------------
    that is between the Christan and God
    ------------------------------

    #15. IS there any place in all of scripture where God's people are told to pray to the dead, pray to Mary or pray to saints who have died? What is necromancy?

    -------------------------
    I don't think so. And I have no idea what necromancy is [​IMG]
    ---------------------------------

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]how's that ?
     
  6. dawna marie

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    necromancy taken from the websters dictionary 2nd edition says 1. the art of revealing future events by means of alleged communication with the dead.

    2. Black magic
     
  7. Dan Todd

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    You must define your terms when you talk to various groups.

    If you ask a Catholic is they accepted Jesus as Savior - they're apt to say yes. Because to them - when they take the wafer and the wine - they are taking Christ the Savior!
     
  8. BobRyan

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    That was great Lea (for the most part) - you are my kind of Catholic!

    However when I go to Catholic historians, Popes and RC authorities themselves - they don't seem to support your views here.

    I refer to Catholic historian and best selling author Thomas Bokenkotter.

    I refer to the highly regarded commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II "The Faith Explained" By Leo Trese.

    I refer to the well published and well known Fr. Ken Ryan of Catholic Digest.

    I refer to EWTN's historians.

    I refer to official papal statements from John Paul and other Popes.

    When we go to "those sources" we find the answers to the questions I posted above - to be (in many cases) significantly different than what you have posted.

    But I must say that where you differ - I prefer your answers.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Necormancy is communicating with the dead.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. amixedupmom

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    Bob I'm a Baptist :D

    But, my mother was Catholic (raised Baptist)

    I was Catholic when I was little. The reason I changed, Is i'm not much for ceremony. I like things a bit live. Not the same thing every time I go. I loved my Catholic pastor and, i'm sure he was a saved man. He was a wonderful man of God.
     
  11. amixedupmom

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    That was great Lea (for the most part) - you are my kind of Catholic!

    However when I go to Catholic historians, Popes and RC authorities themselves - they don't seem to support your views here.

    I refer to Catholic historian and best selling author Thomas Bokenkotter.

    I refer to the highly regarded commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II "The Faith Explained" By Leo Trese.

    I refer to the well published and well known Fr. Ken Ryan of Catholic Digest.

    I refer to EWTN's historians.

    I refer to official papal statements from John Paul and other Popes.

    When we go to "those sources" we find the answers to the questions I posted above - to be (in many cases) significantly different than what you have posted.

    But I must say that where you differ - I prefer your answers.

    In Christ,

    Bob
    </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks Bob. The thing I've learned about both is, they both have faults, they both have merits. When ever human's are involved there is going to be trouble. It is very hard to have a religion that has NO scandal. That NOTHING bad has ever happened to it. I understand this and accept that my pastor, priest, decon ect are all human and are as flawed as I am. I don't expect them to be above me. I just expect them to share what they know so we can all grow as better Christians.

    The Biggest thing about being a Christian is tolerance. Is loving someone despite their beliefs. That even though we do not always agree. We agree that Our Father, His Son and The Holy Ghost are up there watching and waiting for us.

    While i'm sitting here going on and on. I have a personal request. To all who read these lines, Try to be a bit more tolerant of your brothers and sister. To love the sinner and not the sin. To pray for thier guidance, not their ruin, To honor them as Christ honored you. I'm sorry if that seems i'm preaching. I just think we would all learn more, enjoy ourselves more and finally understand more, IF we did these things. It's just a request, something to think about. If you can't, you can't. But , at least I can say that I tried. [​IMG]

    May Christ bless each and everyone of you,
    May He keep you safe and healthy,
    May He shine is light on your life in some way

    Take care
    Wendy Lea
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Wendy -

    The point of the thread is not to condemn other Christians but rather to zero in on the "real" teaching differences - real doctrinal and historic differences. To contrast the two groups and to be able to clearly understand exactly where their Gospel views and doctrinal views diverge.

    Your post points out that there is a difference between what your denomination official teaches and what you individually accept/believe.

    That gap is probably a part of everyone's relationship to the individual church/denomination they attend.

    The point is - if I start quoting well respected highly qualified Catholic sources - it is not done to hurt any Christian - but rather to get to the real differences.

    For example - I am neither Catholic or Baptist - I am Seventh-day Adventist.

    Most here would differ with some of my beliefs - and some would like to "make some of my beliefs up for me". The truth is that IN the actual beliefs themselves - there is plenty of room to take issue and differ. There is no need to "make new stuff up".

    And that is my point. I have no interest in "making stuff up for Catholics to claim" - on the other hand history is documented and teachings/traditions are published by many well known Catholic authorities. Popes, Historians, well respected journals etc -- all of them PRO-Catholic.

    For example I used to write to Catholic Digest and get my questions published and answered by Fr. Ken Ryan (while he was alive of course) - and I took his answers as "informed" and as "pro-Catholic". Though I did not always share his doctrinal beliefs.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. mioque

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    Interestingly enough at this stage no Catholic has posted in this thread. Probably because there are very few left after the last purge.

    And before Bob Ryan feels the urge to say something snide about me, there is a 20+ page debate hidden away in the archives proving that not to long ago he did have an interest in "making stuff up for Catholics to claim" .
     
  14. Gina B

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    mioque, there's no need for you to try to stir up problems in a discussion that's been going along with no problem. Any further comments such as that will be deleted.
    I would suggest people not respond to mioque's comment, so this thread can stay open and productive.
    Gina
     
  15. Doubting Thomas

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    Well, he does have a point, at least with his first comment:
    This cannot be a very "open and productive" thread if it's all one-sided. (And, no, I'm not Roman Catholic)
     
  16. Gina B

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    Fine, I'll close this before it gets too one-sided for anyone.
    Gina
     

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