Baptist Calvinists

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ben W, May 5, 2006.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    In the US, which Baptist Church is the most Calvinist?

    Are those Calvinist Baptist Churches more Calvinist than the Church of Scotland?
     
  2. 4His_glory

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    I don't know if that question can be answered accuratly.

    What is the criteria that defines "most Calvinist"? If you are looking for the number of churches per capita in each denomination of assosiation, I would imagine it would be Reformed Baptist. But there are many SBC churches and IFB churches that are Calvinistic as well.

    As to your second question, I would imagine (though I am not certain) that most Calvinistic Baptists are pre-mill and moderatly dispensational as well (that has been my experience). This would then make then "less" calvinistic than the church of Scotland, whom I would suppose leans to a more convent postion.

    I may be wrong though.
     
  3. Ben W

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    I think that where I am heading, is Baptist denominations that affirm the five points of Calvinism in their theological doctrines, and have the most teaching that evolves around traditional discourse in favour of Calvinism?
     
  4. rjprince

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    It has been my experience that most Baptists with whom I have had association would be very hesitant to affirm limited atonement, even those who are strong on election. Personally, I hold to a very strong view on election but make no attempt to include limited atonement in any of our doctrinal/position statements.

    I hesitate to identify myself as a Calvinist since I am dispensational pre-mil. If the conversation revolves around salvation issues, I will identify myself as Calvinist as opposed to Arminian. I fully believe that sinners are dead in their trespasses and sins, not merely sick in sin. Apart from the Divine working of the Holy Spirit, NO ONE CAN COME TO GOD. The Father must draw them through the intermediary work of the Holy Spirit and through the chosen means of the witness of the Word of God -- faith cometh by hearing the Word...

    I have been in a lot of Baptist circle in my 50 years, Northern, Southern, independent, radical independent and fundamental independent. My experience is that there is no set way to determine which way a church will lean on this issue. However, among most Baptists with whom I have had contact, generally, the higher their education, the greater their tendency to lean to a stronger position on the sovereignty of God in salvation. The experience of others may be different...
     
  5. StraightAndNarrow

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    I don't believe that four point Calvinism, leaving out Limited Atonement, is a consistent position. If God elects a subset of future mankind to be saved then when Jesus died on the cross He died only for that subset, i.e. limited atonement. To claim otherwise is to claim that Jesus' atonement was ineffectual for those were not among the elect. That reduces the value of His sacrifice and thereby God's Sovereignty. This is exactly what Calvinists attack those who believe in free will with regard to accepting or rejecting salvation for.
     
  6. Tom Butler

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    4His_glory said
    I suppose somebody could conduct a survey on Calvinist eschatology. I know some of them are A-Mil, and read where many of them are turning to Post-Mil.

    I'm Historical Pre-Mil--but the best I can say is that this is where I am today. I haven't always been there and I may not be there tomorrow. In a battle of wits over the end-times, I'm half-armed.
     
  7. GLC

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    Ben:
    Are you looking for a Baptist group, i.e. Southern Baptist Churches? I think you would have to narrow your focus to local baptist congregations. It seems to me that within the various groups (Southern Baptist, Independent Baptist, Northern Baptist, etc), there will be local congregations holding various views. It's probably impossible to determine which of those groups have the most local churches that hold strongly to the doctrines of grace. In my area of Western KY, I know of no churches that openly profess this type of doctrinal statement. I attended a Southern Baptist Church in FL while on vacation this year that is strongly in the Calvinist camp. By the way, it is a rapidly growing church.
     
  8. mima

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    I am a four point Calvinist. I do not believe in limited atonement. Because of (JOHN 2:2). I have no problem with the fact that Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world, and still some remain lost this being caused by the play of man's Free will. I am a pre- tribulation, Dispensationist. I see predestination like this. In God's mind(because of his foreknowledge) predestination is a absolute. But because I'm not privy to God's foreknowledge I am fulfilling the great commission by witnessing, by delivering a message about how a person can be saved, can accept God's free offer. I find no contradiction in this variety of beliefs, perhaps because of my lack of knowledge, but regardless I am very comfortable with these beliefs.
    I have stated my beliefs to God in prayer many times. I have always subjected my beliefs to His will. I have openly, sincerely, earnestly ask God to show me anything that I am doing that it is displeasing to him. It is my desire to surrender to His use. And I am thankful to Lord for using me, just last night in prison ministry I prayed with 12 men for their salvation. Glory to God for what he is doing.
     
  9. Kiffen

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    I am a card carrying 5 point Calvinist though I don't have any major problems with four point Calvinists. Southern Baptists probably have the largest number of Calvinists.

    http://pastorrandy.blogspot.com/
     
  10. genesis12

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    I have been a Southern Baptist all my life (and I am in the twilight of my years.) At one point my wife and I became non-denominational, but returned to the SBC for sound doctrinal teaching. I never, ever, ever even heard of Calvinism or Arminianism until I started posting on these boards. In the 4 SBC churches I have worshipped in, I have heard the doctrically sound proclamation of salvation by grace through faith and OSAS. The rest has dealt with being an overcomer in trials and tribulations; witnessing; singing and praising in worship (My wife and I are the only ones who lift our hands when led by the Spirit); outreach programs; and other church matters, such as a dispensational understanding of scripture. My wife and I have missed zero, zilch, nada by not being identified with either extreme: TULIP or Arminianism. We are blessed to be in HIS presence 24/7/365, upon awakening, in our going out and coming in, and upon falling asleep. We even have Christian dreams. [​IMG]
     
  11. MRCoon

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    Very well put...I've grown up in Church and attended Christian Schools while I learned of John Calvin and Martin Luther (and others) of the Reformation and it's relation to Church History, I've not heard much discussion about their theology. So Calvinism, Arminianism, NeoOrthodxy or whatever are interestingly just fluff and only a focus when I am on this board. Other than that it doesn't come up in my church's pulpit or in my teen ministry or teen Bible study...silly stuff really ;)
     
  12. StraightAndNarrow

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    I've been a Baptist my whole life. I grew up in an SBC church in Ky. and have been ABC for the last 15 years in NJ. I've always had a strong interest in theology, partly because my twin brother is an SBC minister (graduated from SBTS). I also was not at all impacted by the Calvinist influence uintil about the last ten years when i encountered it on the internet. My current church is very strong but I'd guess that only a handful are familiar with this discussion.

    Of course, the Calvinist view was one of the two major initial forms of the Baptist faith (particular as opposed to general Baptists). I think the major force behind reintroducing it has come from the conservative faction that took over the SBC in the last 30 years. That's why many are commenting that it wasn't preached in their church when they were young and that's why it does seem to be primarily an SBC phenomenon.
     
  13. MRCoon

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    First, let me clarify and say that I didn't mean to belittle anyone's beliefs or theological thoughts with this "fluff" statement.

    Second, by "fluff" I meant that it is nice to discuss here amongst y'all but in my Christian life it has not been a common topic of discussion and is not something that the average Christian/Church Member thinks about or is aware of. And while I know what I believe and believe what I know...the rest of the theological discussions just get lost in the daily operation of life and service to Christ.

    So I enjoy coming here to for these reasons:
    1. To learn things,
    2. To reaffirm what I know
    3. To gain insights to another perspective
    4. To more intelligently 'argue' a point
    5. To learn to fellowship with other Believers whether we have the same convictions or not
    6. To gain exposure to things that I would not have considered on my own
    7. To share what God is doing in my life
    8. To be a testimony for what I have gleaned of God's wisdom and understanding
    9. And to occassionally be a troublemaker or a peacemaker :D
     
  14. Plain Old Bill

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Good for you my friend.
     
  15. epistemaniac

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    I suppose somebody could conduct a survey on Calvinist eschatology. I know some of them are A-Mil, and read where many of them are turning to Post-Mil.

    I'm Historical Pre-Mil--but the best I can say is that this is where I am today. I haven't always been there and I may not be there tomorrow. In a battle of wits over the end-times, I'm half-armed.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Lol... I am eschataphobic myself.... ;)

    blessings,
    Ken
     

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