Baptist Differerences ...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UZThD, Jun 16, 2005.

  1. UZThD

    UZThD
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    In my short time at BB I've found that some Baptists here think there are two(or more) Gospels but others think just one.

    Some Baptists here teach eternal security and others do not.

    Some Baptists here are charismatic and others are not.

    Some Baptists here believe in water baptism and others do not.

    Some Baptists here think Christ eternally is Son, others do not.

    Some Baptists here follow the Great Commission , others say it is not for this dispensation.

    Some Baptists here are KJV Only, others are not.

    Some Baptists believe in "Spirit baptism for today, others do not....and so forth.

    These differences are significant and make me wonder if Baptists are more different from each other than they are from some other denominations!
     
  2. OldRegular

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    All the issues that you identify are the reasons that Baptists need to adopt a Confession of Faith similar to the 1687 London Baptist Confession or the Philadelphia Baptist Confession.

    A good start is the following Abstract of Principles of the Southern Baptist Seminary.

    When the original charter of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was adopted in 1858, it contained the following statement which continues as a part of the “fundamental laws.” Every professor of the institution shall be a member of a regular Baptist church; and all persons accepting professorships in this seminary shall be considered, by such acceptance, as engaging to teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down, a departure from which principles on his part shall be considered grounds for his resignation or removal by the Trustees, to wit:

    I. The Scriptures
    The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments were given by inspiration of God, and are the only sufficient, certain and authoritative rule of all saving knowledge, faith and obedience.

    II. God
    There is but one God, the Maker, Preserver and Ruler of all things, having in and of Himself, all perfections, and being infinite in them all; and to Him all creatures owe the highest love, reverence and obedience.

    III. The Trinity
    God is revealed to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit each with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence or being.

    IV. Providence
    God from eternity, decrees or permits all things that come to pass, and perpetually upholds, directs and governs all creatures and all events; yet so as not in any wise to be the author or approver of sin nor to destroy the free will and responsibility of intelligent creatures.

    V. Election
    Election is God’s eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life—not because of foreseen merit in them, but of His mere mercy in Christ—in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.

    VI. The Fall of Man
    God originally created Man in His own image, and free from sin; but, through the temptation of Satan, he transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original holiness and righteousness; whereby his posterity inherit a nature corrupt and wholly opposed to God and His law, are under condemnation, and as soon as they are capable of moral action, become actual transgressors.

    VII. The Mediator
    Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is the divinely appointed mediator between God and man. Having taken upon Himself human nature, yet without sin, He perfectly fulfilled the law; suffered and died upon the cross for the salvation of sinners. He was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended to His Father, at whose right hand He ever liveth to make intercession for His people. He is the only Mediator, the Prophet, Priest and King of the Church, and Sovereign of the Universe.

    VIII. Regeneration
    Regeneration is a change of heart, wrought by the Holy Spirit, who quickeneth the dead in trespasses and sins enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the Word of God, and renewing their whole nature, so that they love and practice holiness. It is a work of God’s free and special grace alone.

    IX. Repentance
    Repentance is an evangelical grace, wherein a person being by the Holy Spirit, made sensible of the manifold evil of his sin, humbleth himself for it, with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrence, with a purpose and endeavor to walk before God so as to please Him in all things.

    X. Faith
    Saving faith is the belief, on God’s authority, of whatsoever is revealed in His Word concerning Christ; accepting and resting upon Him alone for justification and eternal life. It is wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, and is accompanied by all other saving graces, and leads to a life of holiness.

    XI. Justification
    Justification is God’s gracious and full acquittal of sinners, who believe in Christ, from all sin, through the satisfaction that Christ has made; not for anything wrought in them or done by them; but on account of the obedience and satisfaction of Christ, they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith.

    XII. Sanctification
    Those who have been regenerated are also sanctified by God’s word and Spirit dwelling in them. This sanctification is progressive through the supply of Divine strength, which all saints seek to obtain, pressing after a heavenly life in cordial obedience to all Christ’s commands.

    XIII. Perseverance of the Saints
    Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end; and though they may fall through neglect and temptation, into sin, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the Church, and temporal judgments on themselves, yet they shall be renewed again unto repentance, and be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.

    XIV. The Church
    The Lord Jesus is the head of the Church, which is composed of all His true disciples, and in Him is invested supremely all power for its government. According to His commandment, Christians are to associate themselves into particular societies or churches; and to each of these churches He hath given needful authority for administering that order, discipline and worship which He hath appointed. The regular officers of a Church are Bishops or Elders, and Deacons.

    XV. Baptism
    Baptism is an ordinance of the Lord Jesus, obligatory upon every believer, wherein he is immersed in water in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, as a sign of his fellowship with the death and resurrection of Christ, of remission of sins, and of Abstract of Principles giving himself up to God, to live and walk in newness of life. It is prerequisite to church fellowship, and to participation in the Lord’s Supper.

    XVI. The Lord’s Supper
    The Lord’s Supper is an ordinance of Jesus Christ, to be administered with the elements of bread and wine, and to be observed by His churches till the end of the world. It is in no sense a sacrifice, but is designed to commemorate His death, to confirm the faith and other graces of Christians, and to be a bond, pledge and renewal of their communion with Him, and of their church fellowship.

    XVII. The Lord’s Day
    The Lord’s Day is a Christian institution for regular observance, and should be employed in exercises of worship and spiritual devotion, both public and private, resting from worldly employments and amusements, works of necessity and mercy only excepted.

    XVIII. Liberty of Conscience
    God alone is Lord of the conscience; and He hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are in anything contrary to His word, or not contained in it. Civil magistrates being ordained of God, subjection in all lawful things commanded by them ought to be yielded by us in the Lord, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

    XIX. The Resurrection
    The bodies of men after death return to dust, but their spirits return immediately to God—the righteous to rest with Him; the wicked, to be reserved under darkness to the judgment. At the last day, the bodies of all the dead, both just and unjust, will be raised.

    XX. The Judgment
    God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world by Jesus Christ, when every one shall receive according to his deeds; the wicked shall go into everlasting punishment; the righteous, into everlasting life.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Can I assume that all Baptists on this Forum agree with the Abstract of Principles? I say Thank God!
     
  4. Shiloh

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    Some on here...(very few) are Baptists.
     
  5. rsr

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    UZThD said:

    In my short time at BB I've found that some Baptists here think there are two(or more) Gospels but others think just one.

    Message boards that purport to cover anything so broad as the Baptist sect cannot represent the entire movement properly. Minority opinions, which are deeply held, tend to make more of an impression than would otherwise be justified. As to two gospels, I think it's fair to say that is the opinion of a tiny minority among Baptists.

    Some Baptists here teach eternal security and others do not.

    That has been the case since the 17th century.

    Some Baptists here are charismatic and others are not.

    I would suggest that the number of true charismatics is relatively small. Even among those who admit the possibility that cessationism is wrong have doubts about the way the belief has been applied in the contemporary church.

    Some Baptists here believe in water baptism and others do not.

    The vast majority of Baptists believe in water baptism.

    Some Baptists here think Christ eternally is Son, others do not.

    Truthfully, I doubt many Baptists even consider this question.

    Baptists from the Reformed tradition inherited eternal sonship as part of the tradition; it probably has been weaker among Baptists less influenced by that tradition.

    And disagreements are not new. Consider the minutes of the Philadelphia Association in 1743:

    Some Baptists here follow the Great Commission , others say it is not for this dispensation.

    Another minority view.

    Some Baptists here are KJV Only, others are not.

    I would suggest that the KJV presence here is out of proportion to its belief by the general population of Baptists.

    These differences are significant and make me wonder if Baptists are more different from each other than they are from some other denominations!

    There is truth to that. Traditionally, Baptists have been defined by polity and eccelesiology, not doctrine. And it's still true today.
     
  6. Ben W

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    Dont forget that some Baptists teach the Ten Commandments too!
     
  7. untangled

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    I simply think some on here can't be baptist. No names, no accusations. I can understand some minor issues being different but there are some "baptists" that have some anything but baptist doctrine.
     
  8. mioque

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    untangled
    Dr. Bob can't visit us all personally to check if we truly are who we say we are.
    For all you know...
    I could be pope Benedict the 16th, using a proxy server in the Netherlands to hide the fact I'm writing my posts from inside the Vatican....
    For all I know...
    Ben W could be a Hindu sheepfarmer who has a bet with his cousin in North-Carolina that he can reach 10.000 posts on this board without being found out and you are that cousin.
     
  9. untangled

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    mioque,

    That was just an answer. I know that everyone can't be checked up on. I'm not stupid. Just an observation about some of the off of the wall doctrine.
     
  10. GODzThunder

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    you will be shocked when you find that some baptist churches are actually cults, just as much a cult as the LDS or the JW's.

    not all who come in my name are mine!! (paraphrase)

    I have even had the rare pleasure of entering into a baptist church that was more like a catholic church. they had statues and a painting of mary, mother of jesus. all they needed was a fish hat for their pope preacher.
     
  11. mioque

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    Ahum... Mine wasn't just any answer, it was a COOL answer! ;)
     
  12. OldRegular

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    I have heard that there is a Baptist? church in Louisville, Ky. where the pastor speaks from a hole [whatever] in the wall??
     
  13. untangled

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    Okay, you got me. :D It was not just a cool answer but a very cool answer. :cool:
     
  14. Paul33

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    There are millions of baptist who deny the historic orthodox faith and would be closer to unitarians than evangelicals.

    So yes, there are probably baptists here who don't sound like historic orthodox Christian baptists.
     
  15. Sounddoctrine04

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    UZThD wrote: "In my short time at BB I've found that some Baptists here think there are two(or more) Gospels but others think just one."

    There are many doctrines within Christianity, but only ONE gospel: Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for our sins, was buried, and was raised again for our justification. That is THE gospel. There is no other gospel.

    There were some Baptists in our history that were not called as such (but were usually called by their leader's names or their geographical location) that were baptists because of three basic distinctives:

    1. They believed in a regenerate membership by grace through faith
    2. They believed in believers-only immersion (baptism)
    3. They believed the scriptures were their final authority on matters of faith and practice

    From there many different groups believed many different things, but these three basic tenants were found in all. Once a person or church leaves any of the above tenants, once ceases to be a Baptist.
     
  16. UZThD

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    ===

    If what you say is true ,that one not adhering to each of those three points is not a Baptist, then some who post at BB and who say they are Baptists are either confused or are intentionally misrepresenting.

    If you will read recent threads you will see that one here who says he is a Baptist denies that water baptism is for today. He thinks this dispensation is wholly of grace and that water baptism is a work.

    I am not in this post attacking his belief or yours, but am simply pointing out that if you are right, then he is not a Baptist. If he is a Baptist, then you are wrong!

    I am also curious as to your authority and accuracy to distinguish Baptists from others on the basis of those three points.

    It still seems to me that doctrinal differences among Baptists may exceed the differences between Baptists and some other denominations. I also wonder if some other tenets besides those three are not identifiers of Baptistic distinctives.

    [ July 01, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]
     
  17. StefanM

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    I don't see how someone could go by the term "Baptist" if one did not believe in baptism!
     
  18. UZThD

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    I don't see how someone could go by the term "Baptist" if one did not believe in baptism! [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]===

    Neither do I! Yet this forum is Baptist Study/Doctrine and posters here are required to be Baptists and this poster says he is a Baptist, howbeit a dispensationalist, who does not subscribe to water baptism. WB, he says, is not for this dispensation of "Paul's Gospel."

    So, there you are! I agree with you, but those are the facts!
     
  19. Sounddoctrine04

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    Being a "Baptist" is based on historical distinctives -- those which Baptists have held from the beginning.

    1. They believed in a regenerate membership by grace through faith
    2. They believed in believers-only immersion (baptism)
    3. They believed the scriptures were their final authority on matters of faith and practice

    From there many different groups believed many different things, but these three basic tenants were found in all.

    These distinctives to happen to be scriptural, therefore being a Baptist is ALSO scriptural. Again, it is my opinion, and I believe rightly so, that once a person leaves any of those basic tenants, they cease to be a Baptist. If a person in this group states they don't believe in water baptism, then they are not a Baptist and should be excluded from this board.
     
  20. Plain Old Bill

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    Moique you are to funny.
     

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