"Baptist Doctrines"

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. Joshua, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    In the threads on starting a fundamentalist-only forum, a one poster in particular has used the phrase "the baptist doctrines" to describe modern doctrines like inerrancy.

    The way the phrase gets used makes me think that there is a set creed or collection of fundamentalist doctrines that churches in their association or denomination must sign - and that said creed includes inerrancy.

    I've been a baptist all my life, graduated from a baptist seminary, and am ordained as a baptist minister and endorsed as a baptist chaplain. Nowhere have I seen a set of "baptist doctrines" that make inerrancy a prerequisite to being a baptist. I am aware that inerrancy is in the new Baptist Faith and Message, but that's a Southern Baptist document, not a universal baptist one. It's also recent and controversial.

    For those of you who believe that there are universal "baptist doctrines" that are also fundamentalist ones, I'm curious to hear what they are and where you encountered there use in baptist life. I'm providing this thread so the other ones don't get diverted any further.

    Joshua
     
  2. Justified

    Justified
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    I would not entertain this, as he already knows what side of the fence he stands on! [​IMG]

    Thus, I will not cast the pearls... :D

    ”Why stand on the broad road and get trampled?” Justified Version [​IMG]

    "It is always better to stand up for conservatism, than to fall into liberalism" Justified Version [​IMG]

    ”Conservatives- Theology dictates morality/Liberals- morality dictates Theology” Justified Version [​IMG]
     
  3. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    Justified, it's a simple question. I've seen you in particular use the phrase several times (and coincidentally claim that I'm not really a baptist). Now's your chance to clarify what you mean, simply by listing the doctrines which you believe define a baptist (and hopefully to show how those doctrines have historically been held by a larger group of baptists than just yourself).

    Joshua
     
  4. LadyEagle

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    How wise & perceptive, Justified. :D

    Shall I shake the dust? [​IMG]

    la-la-la....On the Jericho road, la-la-la, there's room for just two..... [​IMG]
     
  5. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    Well, spout all of the "anti-liberal" rhetoric you like, but I always assumed that the primary purpose of the board was to allow different baptists to communicate with each other and understand each other better. I have never turned down or avoided an attempt at dialogue.

    It sounds to me like you two want to prance around saying "You're not a true baptist!" all day, but as soon as someone asks "What exactly defines a true baptist?" (a question I've answered several times here - usually using Shurden's definitions as a starting point) you refuse to answer.

    How convenient.

    Joshua
     
  6. BrianT

    BrianT
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    Justified, I was hoping to see some actual answers to his question, because he's not the only one who would like you (or someone else) to answer it. People get on Joshua's case all the time here, usually with no support for their case other than emotionalism and their own limited, narrow personal experience, causing them to think that their way is the "Baptist" way.

    Snide, insulting remarks like the one you made is not only un-Baptist, but just makes me think you *can't* answer the question. Put your money where your mouth is. Or close your mouth.
     
  7. Baptist Believer

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    The word "inerrancy" is not used in the latest Baptist Faith and Message:

    "I. The Scriptures

    The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

    Exodus 24:4; Deuteronomy 4:1-2; 17:19; Joshua 8:34; Psalms 19:7-10; 119:11,89,105,140; Isaiah 34:16; 40:8; Jeremiah 15:16; 36:1-32; Matthew 5:17-18; 22:29; Luke 21:33; 24:44-46; John 5:39; 16:13-15; 17:17; Acts 2:16ff.; 17:11; Romans 15:4; 16:25-26; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Hebrews 1:1-2; 4:12; 1 Peter 1:25; 2 Peter 1:19-21."

    Personally, I reject the newest version of the BF&M (I affirm the 1963 version), but the article on scripture is not too bad. It is very close to what I believe except I would stress that Christ is the fullest revelation of God instead of the emphasis on the Bible as being the fullest revelation.

    It's funny that the so-called "conservative resurgence" was supposed to be about inerrancy, but when the ringleaders of the overthrow have the opportunity to write their article on the scriptures, they don't use the word inerrancy (which has "clear" definition according to the Chicago statement that several of them helped create). Some say that it proves that the takeover was about power more than theology.
     
  8. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
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    Good point BB (and one I've made as well). I should have said "implied in the 2k BF&M."

    Joshua
     
  9. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    Then from this day forward I will remind you that you refused to tell Joshua the standards by which he is being judged.

    It's "put up or shut up" time.
     
  10. Baptist Believer

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    Does that make you proud? Do you feel holy now?
     
  11. Baptist Believer

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    The word "inerrancy" is not used in the latest Baptist Faith and Message:

    "I. The Scriptures

    The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

    Exodus 24:4; Deuteronomy 4:1-2; 17:19; Joshua 8:34; Psalms 19:7-10; 119:11,89,105,140; Isaiah 34:16; 40:8; Jeremiah 15:16; 36:1-32; Matthew 5:17-18; 22:29; Luke 21:33; 24:44-46; John 5:39; 16:13-15; 17:17; Acts 2:16ff.; 17:11; Romans 15:4; 16:25-26; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Hebrews 1:1-2; 4:12; 1 Peter 1:25; 2 Peter 1:19-21."

    Personally, I reject the newest version of the BF&M (I affirm the 1963 version), but the article on scripture is not too bad. It is very close to what I believe except I would stress that Christ is the fullest revelation of God instead of the emphasis on the Bible as being the fullest revelation.

    It's funny that the so-called "conservative resurgence" was supposed to be about inerrancy, but when the ringleaders of the overthrow have the opportunity to write their article on the scriptures, they don't use the word inerrancy (which has "clear" definition according to the Chicago statement that several of them helped create). Some say that it proves that the takeover was about power more than theology.
     
  12. Ps104_33

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Boy, thats good stuff! Couldnt put it any better than that. I'm gonna write that in the flyleaf of my Bible.
     
  13. LadyEagle

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    Does that make you proud? Do you feel holy now?</font>[/QUOTE]Actually I am holy, since I have been sanctified and justified. Hallelujah!

    But a better question would be, how does it make you feel to have your thread hijacked with silliness and unrelated issues to the topic? [​IMG]

    Why go down a whole litany of Baptist doctrines only to have them hijacked with talk of Monty Python, as has happened on another thread? :rolleyes:

    Joshua already knows the answer to his post & what answers to expect from several of us. It's a game, it is, to some. :(
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    Joshua I can answer your question only using our Articles Of Faith of The brethren of Little Bethany Primitive Baptist Church in San Diego. This is from our church covenant so it is set in stone and it's not up for debate.

    2. We believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the written word of God and are the only infallible rule of faith and practice. We consider the King James as orthodox and accept no other.

    II Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  15. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    Joshua,
    Where did the term Baptist originate? Did Roger Williams make it up?
     
  16. rsr

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    Good question.

    Roger Williams was a Baptist only for a short period.

    In the earliest confessions, the Baptists called themselves "Churches of Christ."
     
  17. Bible-belted

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    Here is something I posted on the conservative board htread, but, in light of some responses here, bears repeating.

    &gt;&gt;Like I said, a "ture baptist" is not defined by being conservative or liberal necessarily. Baptists are people who hold to the authority of Scripture, the Lordship of Christ, Competency of the Soul, baptism by immersion of believers, local church autonomy. Positions on end times, abortion, and a host of other things do not define a "true baptist".

    The more I see this, the more I see it as a bad idea. It would be a haven for self-satisfied fundamentalist snobbery from the looks of things.

    Sorry to be harsh about it, but you should hear yourselves sometimes... &lt;&lt;
     
  18. David Cooke Jr

    David Cooke Jr
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    Tell it brother, tell it!
     
  19. go2church

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    1. Soul freedom
    2. Priesthood of the believer
    3. Local church autonomy
    4. Believer's baptism
    5. Mission emphasis
    6. No creed but the bible
    7. Unity not conformity

    If someone tells me they believe the bible is God's inspired word, perfect in the originals and completely trustworthy for ALL matters of faith and practice I believe them until the fruit of their lives or ministry says otherwise. I don't make them sign anything or stand behind vague, often misunderstood definitions that mean one thing with this group and a another with that group.
     
  20. Bible-belted

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    Now THAT is a historic baptist position!
     

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