Baptist Hall Of Shame

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Mark Osgatharp, Sep 18, 2005.

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  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    In the "Baptist Hall Of Fame" thread someone coined the term "Baptist Hall Of Shame." That gave me a thought to start this thread.

    I give my nominees for top 10. They are picked not just because of the severity of their errors, but because of their widespread influence on the Baptist churches and ministry.

    These are all so shamefull that my order is almost totally arbitrary.

    10. Jimmy Carter - ran for president on the "born again" ticket now says he is "being born again." Model left wing Baptist.

    9. Rick Warren - perfecter of religious marketeering in the name of God.

    8. Harry Emerson Fosdick - as much or more than, any other individual Baptist popularized modernism among northern Baptists.

    7. Wayne Oates - bastardized the gospel ministry with psychology.

    6. A.T. Robertson - perfected the ridiculous notion that the Greek language somehow holds some hidden "word pictures" which shed light on the word of God - thus helped popularize the common practice of preaching about words rather than preaching about what the prophets actually said.

    5. Jerry Falwell - promoter of gimmickry and programmism and religious charlatanism.

    4. Shailer Matthews - injected the modernist heresy deeply into the northern Baptist blood through the infamous University of Chicago Divinity School.

    3. William Whitsitt - enthroned the restorationist ecclesiology among the Southern Baptist intellectual elitists.

    2. Martin Luther King Jr. - helped turn the black Baptist churches into black political advocacy groups and was a proponent of the universal fatherhood of God heresy.

    1. Charles Spurgeon - done more, by example, to promote Calvinism than perhaps any other individual.

    Others who could be added (in no particular order): E.Y. Mullins, Walter Shurden, Crawford Toy, James P. Boyce, James Dunn, A.H. Strong, Tony Campolo, Henry C. Vedder, Leon McBeth, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Daniel Parker, John Gill, John Mason Peck, Lasserre Bradley Jr., Charles Stanley, Dale Moody, Daniel Vestal, Glenn Hinson, Bill Leonard, Jack Hyles, and Bob Gray.

    Who might you add to the list?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    With 6 and 1 of your list, I can only wonder who in leadership wouldn't make it. I write this as some on your list held/hold positions 180 degress for each other. Though, I do agree with your listing of 8 and 4.
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Which Bob Gray are you referring to? The Tyrant in Texas?...or that faithful man of God who labored in Jacksonville Fla. and then moved on to the mission field in Germany?I had the pleasure and blessing of sitting under his ministry and preaching for two years back in the 80's.

    Greg Sr.
     
  4. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Gregory,

    The Texas Tyrant. He is only one of four out of my list I have heard in person. He preached what ranked as one of the most ridiculous messages I have ever heard from a Baptist pulpit. On top of that, he walked up and down on the pews and literally demonstrated how to shame people into walking the ailse.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  5. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Very few, if any, "in leadership" couldn't vie for the list. The very reason most men become "leaders" is because they are self-promoting glory seekers and/or are preaching some ear tickling philosophies that the masses are itching to hear.

    Paul foretold of such when he warned Timothy that in the latter days the people would heap to themsleves teachers, having itching ears.

    I chose the ones I did because of their success in influencing the Baptist masses.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  6. jshurley04

    jshurley04
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    So according to you, a person cannot be a leader w/o being corrupted? Not only is this disrespecful to honest men of God but it is also tearing down men of God based on one's personal opinion and not valid fact. Just because a leader does not fit into your personal belief mold does not make his ministry invalid.

    Anyone who knows Christ as their savior is a leader no matter if they accept that fact or not. God did not create followers and God does not work through followers. God uses leaders, why do we want the members of our churches to do what is right? Because they are leading people toward or away from Christ. Your attack on leadership not only includes those that you have listed but other faithful men and women of God whether they pastor a church, lead a Sunday School class, or are simply faithful to witness to those they come in contact with.
     
  7. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    jshurley,

    I did not indict all leadership. I was not even referring to local church leadership, but to leaders of "the masses". Even then I qualified it with "most".

    There may have been some men who had noteriety thrust on them simply because they did what was right (though I admittedly can't think of a single bona fide case of that in modern times). That is quite a different thing from the Billy Grahams and Jerry Falwells of this world who set out to - and in fact did - build personal religious empires.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  8. PamelaK

    PamelaK
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    Originally posted by jshurley04:
    God did not create followers and God does not work through followers.

    We must be following Christ first before we can lead anyone anywhere.
     
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Consider my writing:
    ----------------------------------
    The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

    1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
    2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
    3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
    4. the literal resurrrection of Christ from the dead
    5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

    The pseudo-fundamentals:

    1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
    2. Anti-education
    3. Anti-success
    4. Anti-female
    5. Anti-alien (Hate of gay-boys, racism, etc.)

    Typical statements made by the pseudo-fundamentalist:
    (note that the world calles them "fundies"
    and we real fundamentalists have to bear their
    burden unjustly):

    1. The KJB replaces the origial language manuscripts as being God's word
    2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
    3. Jerry Falwell sold out to the Devil
    4. woman, kneel before your man
    5. Jews killed Christ
    ----------------------------------------

    This OP = Opening Post, seems to display the bolded characteristics of pseudo-fundamentalism :(
     
  10. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
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    Mark,

    You forgot John R. Graves! How could you be so blind?
     
  11. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
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    This Topic Taints This Forum, Totally.
     
  12. patrick

    patrick
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    We will bash anyone who disagrees with us. We want to make them out to be evil. To me this is just bashing others. I can find a lot wrong with a lot of people. Why do some people have to be so negative? Do I agree with the viewa of alot of these people on the list? No, but I ain't going to bash them either!!!!!!!!
     
  13. bapmom

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    All of those men made an impact. We might not like the impact they made, myself included, but I bet most did NOT make that impact by making Top Ten Lists of the worst people around.

    Let's go out and make an impact that is GOOD in our world!
     
  14. Squire Robertsson

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    Very few, if any, "in leadership" couldn't vie for the list. The very reason most men become "leaders" is because they are self-promoting glory seekers and/or are preaching some ear tickling philosophies that the masses are itching to hear.

    Paul foretold of such when he warned Timothy that in the latter days the people would heap to themsleves teachers, having itching ears.

    I chose the ones I did because of their success in influencing the Baptist masses.

    Mark Osgatharp
    </font>[/QUOTE]The problem is you have lumped many leaders of days gone by with some of today's not-so greats. I would ask you if men like B. Myron Cedarholm, M. James Hollowood, Monroe Parker, Richard Weeks, Richard Clearwaters, Arno Q. Wenigar, Sr., G. Archer Wenigar, or James Singleton would make your list?
     
  15. mcdirector

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    I'm not famous, but I am a leader in my field and locale. I need to place myself on the list because I have not always sought God's will before taking a position. I have not always glorified Him even when I did seek His will first. From time to time I've basked in the earthly glory brought by what "I've" done.

    OK, I'm a sinner, saved by His magnificent grace, but still a sinner. Sometimes I'm surprised by how sinful I can be. What have I done that's mislead others? Oh dear God, please show me!

    AND I will agree that there are a couple of shameful people on that original list, but since I don't want to be judged by the yardstick I construct, I think I'll refrain.
     
  16. Plain Old Bill

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    Mark your list is very extensive.Who do you like?
     
  17. Mark Osgatharp

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    When you consider that vast numbers of Baptist ministers and people who have lived and died in this country, the list is really not limited at all. Again, the reason I choose these men is because of their widespread influence for evil.

    Note that those on the list basically fall into four categories: Purveyors of modernism, purveyors of Calvinism, purveyors of, for lack of a better term, psycho-babel, and purveyors of religious gimmickery/commercialization.

    There have been literally thousand upon thousands of Baptist pastors who have lived and died who fit none of these categories.

    So who do I like? The sort of Baptist who would make my "hall of fame" list would be a plain old Bible believing Baptist who believes that Jesus died for all and would have all men to come to the knowledge of the truth, and who has no part in the commercialization of the gospel.

    People like this seldom become well known and, therefore, I don't know the names of most of them and if I called the names of the ones I do know, you wouldn't recognize them. But God will reveal His "Hall of Fame" someday and then will every man have his praise from God, not from man.

    And all those men of fame who have done untold harm to humanity and the kingdom of God will be exposed for the waterless clouds they really were.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  18. Squire Robertsson

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    And you have not answered my question.
     
  19. Mark Osgatharp

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    Never heard of any of these men so I cannot comment on them.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  20. Plain Old Bill

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    Thankyou for your answer Mark. I would withhold judgement on some of these folks unless I could unequivocally state I knew thier hearts.I'm looking forward to seeing some of those guys in heaven as well as you.
     
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