Baptist Infidels

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mark Osgatharp, Dec 12, 2005.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    Though Southern Baptists denied it for years, it is now a matter of unquestionable historic record that the Convention was deeply infected with modernist infidelism during the mid 20th century. The following letter to the editor of The Humanist magazine (March-April 1989) is an example of the sort of atheism that injected it's deadly venom deep into the Southern Baptist blood vein.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,075
    Likes Received:
    102
    Moving to the theology forum ...
     
  3. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    rsr,

    I don't understand why you moved this topic. I was not trying to start a theological discussion about the nature of God. I presented an historical document demonstrating the presence of infidels in the Southern Baptist ministry.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  4. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm dizzy now.
     
  5. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,254
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is kind of an odd thread. Is it theological (to a point) with a historical bent; or is it historical (to a point) with a theological bent? I'd say it ought to be in the General Baptist Discussions forum. However, I'll not move it for now.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Where WAS it? In the Pastoral Ministries section?

    It IS a theological issue. And I'd say NOT limited by any stretch to the SBC, so denominational slamming is not the point.
     
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,144
    Likes Received:
    25
    Seems the pastor of Tom Baptist Church leaves little doubt where he stands. It's a shame that he isn't honest enough to get out of church or change the Tom Humanist Society or something.
     
  8. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]I'm a little confused about the man's point. Is he saying that Christ is not God? How can he "minister" and have a fruitful ministry when, by his own admisison, he thinks God is, "the name we've assigned to indentify the dynamics of the universe."

    Isn't the term Christian humanist an oxymoron?
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    This post was originally in the Baptist history forum where it should have stayed. It was intended as a discussion of infidelism among Baptists, particularly among Southern Baptists.

    Certainly this man is not typical of Southern Baptist pastors. He is, however, and example of the radical infidelity that has invaded the Southern Baptist ministry.

    These sort are imbedded in the higher educational system and, whereas the Southern Baptists have made great strides toward purging them from the Convention institutions, it is no wonder that the old Southern Baptist colleges and universities are severing their ties with the Convention right and left.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  10. Kiffen

    Kiffen
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think this is old news. 1989 :confused: is almost 2 decades ago when the Conservatice/Liberal war was hot in the SBC. The Conservatives are firmly in control now and we see new divisions that is much more muddled.

    That there are infidels in the SBC or ABA or GARBC should not be a surprise since no denomination or fellowship is perfect.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Doesn't surprise from what I have experienced as well.

    I pastoeed a church that had a practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to preach at a number of meetings in the community. Later when I began ot put a stop to it some from the state levekl of the SBC told me they knew about the practice for years. Nothing was ever said or done to put a stop to this by the SBC. I wrote a former SBC president and basically I was told to move on. He never said or did anything.

    When I was a student at SWBTS meetig at the extension campus in Houston I saw for myself the horoscope published each week in their school newspaper. I saw placards on the wall honoring the big money givers. I read in the Baptist Standard about the nickels and noses of each chruch in the SBC in Texas.

    Call that godly?

    My experience leads me to believe the SBC talks a lot but does little. That is true liberalism. It is a pseudo faith which James condemns.
     
  12. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dealing with the history of the theology in SBC, Mark O. is absolutely correct. In Paul Pressler's book "A Hill on Which to Die" he quotes a survey that was given to southern baptist seminary students in the 1970's. It asked questions such as "Do you believe in God?" and "Is Jesus is the only way to heaven?" Incoming students were all at 100%, but by the end of the first year 1/3 denied belief in God, and by the end of the second year 2/3 denied the virgin birth.

    If you want to see the history of what happened, get Pressler's book.
     
  13. Karen

    Karen
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know the man specifically noted in the OP, but I can tell you that Idabel, OK is a very tiny town.
    And that the Baptist General Convention of OK is very conservative theologically as a group and has not had many of the divisions of other states such as Texas and MO.
    I recognize that leaders in the national conservative resurgence as a whole have often been flawed and have not always handled things well.
    Actually, in 25 years of reading the Baptist Messenger of OK and of trying to pay attention to Baptist news in various ways, I don't think I have EVER heard of this man before.

    Shows the value of the internet, I suppose. You can always find something about something.

    Karen
     
  14. Karen

    Karen
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    0
    You paint with a very broad brush. You have mentioned your Mormon experiences a number of times, and it seems to have affected you very deeply. I am sorry those people were such a stumblingblock to you.
    Rest assured. Baptists in my town would not make you stumble in this way. Mormonism is recognized as false. We would, though, disappoint you in some way. :(

    Karen
     
  15. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's hardly fair, and quite inaccurate, to point to a single letter and make a case for the whole denomination being such. That's like accusing all IFB's of liberalism just because some of them are KJVO.
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    I have painted with just as wide of a brush as several leaders in the SBC. It is not a subjective experience but actual fact.

    It was very disappointing that some church members would lie and say things about my family which were not true. My family had an excellent testimony in that community. However, some good things did come out of it. Some of the people who left went into ministry. It gave them a clean break which forced them to make decisions. Within six months I started three Bible studies with 20 people, discipling them..

    Ungodliness ought to affect anyone deeply especially leaders. Non-Christians are watching to see what will be done. If sin doesn't bother us then we are very hardened. That church sickened me because it has a bad testimony among the non-believers in the community. That church should be dealt with. What saddens me is the fact that leaders in the SBC know about it and do nothing. No church which carries the label conservative, and evangelical should be allowed to remain a bad testimony in a community and fellowship with other churches. Where is the discipline? You have no idea how little or how much your church will do until pushed to take a stance.

    What really sickens me is when I talk with non-Christians and I hear about the easy believeism and how so many are legalistic. The door should be wide open so that people stare Christ in the face and not even see the messenger because the messenger is humble. As Christians we should never hold anyone back from knowing Christ.
     
  17. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't make a case for the "whole denomination being such." But that the denomination was deeply infected with it and is still being effected by it cannot be questioned.

    For example, one by one the old Southern Baptist colleges and universities are severing their SBC ties because they are bent on persuing and propogating their infidelity.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  18. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't make a case for the "whole denomination being such." But that the denomination was deeply infected with it and is still being effected by it cannot be questioned.

    For example, one by one the old Southern Baptist colleges and universities are severing their SBC ties because they are bent on persuing and propogating their infidelity.

    Mark Osgatharp
    </font>[/QUOTE]So, liberal-leaning schools are leaving the SBC because of its increasing conservatism. This is a problem because....?

    Yes, there were once a lot of liberals in high positions of authority in the SBC. Conservatives decided to stay in and fight, and for the first time in history, a liberal takeover of a denomination was reversed. Seminary professors were fired, conservative scholars were hired, and there has been a general house cleaning. Eternal vigilence is required, and we are not finished yet, but we honored our forefathers by not surrendering.

    Secondly, if some wacko in Oklahoma 17 years ago, in a denomination with millions of members and tens of thousands of churches, is taken as real evidence of decline, someone needs to take a chill pill. He would not be accepted in our association!
     
  19. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. We don't know that this guy is really a baptist.
    2. We don't know if he is still alive.
    3. We don't know if he is still an atheist.
    4. We don't know if this guy ever had any position in a Baptist church (just because he says he did).
    So what does he show......?

    I can't find his church listed anywhere from where he might live in Idabel to Tom, OK. Maybe it is in his garage.

    [ December 14, 2005, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: Major B ]
     
  20. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,144
    Likes Received:
    25
    Major, et al.,

    Your post made me wonder if this church is accepted in the local SB association in SE OK, or in the state Convention, or the Mainstream Baptists.

    I may need to take a little more time, but didn't find any church or association listings on the BGC-OK web site. &lt;http://www.bgco.org/&gt;

    Again, I may need to look harder, but didn't find any church listings on the Mainstream Baptist-OK web site. &lt;http://www.mainstreambaptists.org/&gt;

    Anyone know?
     

Share This Page

Loading...