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Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Dr. Bob, Jul 20, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    One of the threads and a poll in the General Baptist Forum is dealing with issues relating partly to Catholicism. I am Moderator of that forum and just want to ask any NON-BAPTISTS to please NOT post there or skew the poll for Baptists only.

    It is a prevalent thought among fundamentalist Baptist (about 25% of all Baptists) that most Roman Catholic and Orthodox are NOT truly "born again by faith alone". Some are (we pray YOU are), but YOU may disagree with that opinion and this would be a fine thread right here for you to express your opinions.

    But if you post in the Baptist-Only section, you will be subject to losing posting privileges anywhere on the BaptistBoard, and we do not want that.

    (Grant, your post there was inadvertant and you are not in "danger". It was sad someone mislead you into posting there!)
     
  2. GraceSaves

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    Dr. Bob,

    It was not "partly" related to Catholicism. The thread was "Do Baptists fear Catholicism," and in that post, you stated that, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, 99.9% of Catholics will go to hell. And Catholics are not allowed to have any recourse, except here, where other people participating in that thread may or may not see it.

    Yes, the BB owners/operators are free to make up rules as they see fit. I am simply stating that you're post horrifies me and that, even though it won't change anything, posting practices like that are NOT just.

    Saved by the Grace of God,

    Grant
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Feel free to start your own Board. Unmoderated if you desire. Your choice. But these rules are ours. YOU are our GUEST and we ask you to abide by those.

    Thanks.
     
  4. GraceSaves

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    Bob,

    As a Christian, are you not obliged to follow the rules of Christ? One of them is to not judge others hearts. I humbly ask you to abide by that rule, and not make statements like this anymore:

    Do I think they are Christian? No. 99.9% are on their way to hell. No question about it.

    And then say that you don't judge peoples hearts. I've already stopped posting there, AND admitted I was wrong. It's your turn now.

    In His Name,

    Grant
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Had I said "EVERY" Catholic (or Mormon or Buddhist or Hindu) is not truly "born again", I would have condemned all without knowing them individually or their hearts' position.

    Hence the allowance, albeit small, for some to be genuinely saved, since I do NOT know the heart.

    I am not judging you, Grant. You may be part of the one million practicing catholics that I would deem "truly born again". Or not. I don't know.

    But I have the right to my opinion. You can turn around and say 99.9% of Baptists are not "truly born again" and YOU would have the right to the opinion (and I would certainly disagree with you).

    I judge a false religious system (MY opinion) and those practicing it are in error. I am sorry if that seems like I am condemning or judging you. I am not. I am judgeing a religious system (like Hinduism or Taoism). And I have a responsibility to the Truth and proclaiming it. and will not shrink from that.

    Bob

    [editted gross spelling error!]

    [ July 20, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  6. Watchman

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    Dr. Bob Griffin:
    You can turn around and say 99.9% of Baptists are not "truly born again" and YOU would have the right to the opinion (and I would certainly disagree with you).

    Good point! Let's turn it around Catholics-what is your opinion of us?
    We are not in the Catholic Church, believe in grace through faith alone. We view Mary as the mother of Jesus and was blessed by God, but nothing more, will never attend Mass or go to the confessional and view the Pope as just another man.
    How many of us are saved? Is it my understanding that, according to Church dogma, NONE?
    If you say, "Of course some of you are saved." Than what affect would ex-communication from the Catholic Church have, if you can be saved out here? Just curious.
     
  7. John Gilmore

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    For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 3:11

    Baptists and Catholics who retain the foundation (i.e., true knowledge of Christ and faith) have been regenerated through Word and Sacrament. However, Mormons, Buddhists and Hindu who worship false gods are in eternal wrath and damnation because they know not the Lord Jesus Christ.

    To believe that Mormons, Buddhists and Hindu can be saved without the Gospel is enthusiasm. The Holy Spirit does not create faith without means.
     
  8. Chrift

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  9. Brother Adam

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    "How many of us are saved? Is it my understanding that, according to Church dogma, NONE?"

    You misunderstand Catholic doctrine- check out the other thread started on this subject (I believe the subject line is 99.9 percent of Catholics aren't saved) where WPutman explains the doctrine.
     
  10. GraceSaves

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    Watchman,

    The Lord Jesus, and yourself, know if you are saved or not. I make no such judgements on a person. All I can do is be the Lord's hands and feet and spread the Good News, and hope that saving faith is instilled in them. I don't tell them when they do not have it, because I DON'T KNOW.

    You can turn it around on us all you want. I don't judge others relationship with the Lord.

    In His Name,

    Grant
     
  11. Gina B

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    Grace Saves, who do you witness to?
    Gina
     
  12. GraceSaves

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    Gina,

    Who do I witness to?

    I witness to my friends. Some of them are Christians with a church home. Some are Christians without a church home. Some of them are not Christians, but agnostics or atheists.

    I witness to my family, by living my faith when at home, and letting them know how important my relationship with the Lord is.

    I currently have the opportunity to witness to a Muslim girl who is interested in learning more about the Christian faith.

    I witness to my Church community, by actively and faithfully participating in divine worship of our Triune God.

    I witness to the community (although this is an area I wish to improve on) by helping those who cannot help themselves, or need assistance.

    I now pray every morning, first thing, and offer up the day to the Lord Jesus, that what I offer Him may be pleasing, and that I can do any work that He needs me to do.

    And I am one heck of an imperfect witness! I pray that the grace of God will continually conform ever more to the life of His Son so that my witness of the Gospel will aid in bringing the light of Christ to God's children.

    In Jesus' Saving Name,

    Grant
     
  13. Gina B

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    Ok, let me rephrase it.
    What is the point in witnessing? Do you do it to teach people how to gain salvation? If so, how do you decide who to witness to?
    Gina
     
  14. Carson Weber

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    Gina,

    We witness to every sort of individual, whether a professing Christian or not by means of our lives, which are immersed in the life, death, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    With regard to the means of salvation, we would of course place special interest in those who are not living a sacramental life united to the person of Jesus Christ (a life which all practicing and thus believing Catholics live). Recognizing the empirical fact that an individual is living "in sin" (after having been baptized) or that an individual has not been baptized (has not the Christian faith) leads us to witness not merely by witness of life but also in witness of word in order to minister to such an individual.

    The problem that Grant and others are addressing above entails particular Baptists making overarching judgements concerning the souls of believing Christians, which is highly problematic in light of our inability to sense the presence of grace, which is not a part of the material but rather the spiritual creation.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    While I don't agree with the view that "Catholics are not saved because they are Catholic and not protestant" - I would have this question for Catholics.

    It is often the case that Jews are "evangelized" with the view that "they are going to hell unless they accept Christ as their savior". Of course the Jews typically take "offense" that anyone would say they are going to hell or that anyone would threaten their religion by trying to "convert them".

    So - given that I don't agree with the view that Catholics "are going to hell" I STILL have the question about "evangelizing Catholics" for Catholics. Why be "offended" by the efforts to "evangelize" Catholics by those hat believe the Bible indicates that Catholics are "not saved".

    The fact is - if you have that view of Catholics (that they are not saved) then the "only" healthy reasponse is "well lets given them the gospel invitation".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. BobRyan

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    As Fr. Ken Ryan observed - the RC teaching is that the "New Covenant" is the Catholic mass - "This cup is the New Covenant in My blood" - and by 'that definition' ALL non-Catholics are excluded from the New Covenant.

    Of course to "NON" Catholics that "sounds like" the "SAME thing" as saying non-Catholics are not saved.

    But Catholics believe in "making up" new ways of salvation - so they find ways to get non-Catholics into Purgatory without the New Covenant.

    An Interesting counter spin to some views that Catholics are not Christians - and also an interesting evolution of the Catholics teaching "outside the church of Rome no salvation".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. Justified Saint

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    There is a difference though between evangelizing and telling someone they are going to hell. Wouldn't you be a little offended if someone came up said you were going to hell? In other words, why does the first thing always have be "You are going to hell"? Just trying to be blunt and honest?
     
  18. 3AngelsMom

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    Grant,
    Why are you making such a big deal out of this?

    While I do not share Dr. Bob's sentiments, I have to ask why you are so overly sensitive to his comment?

    There are books all over the world that are anti catholic, and there are people all over the world who are anti catholic.

    Why do you let it bother you so much?

    YOU know if you are born again, why do you care what others think?

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
  19. GraceSaves

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    3AngelsMom,

    Unless I am mistaken, there are all sorts of posts on this board in which you attempt to defend your beliefs and your faith. Why do you do that? Don't you know what you believe?

    Wouldn't it be nicer if people understood all that you believed? Yes, that's most likely why you persist here.

    In the same way, I believe that I am a Christian, who has a wonderful relationship with Jesus Christ, and I believe that tehre are many other Catholics out there like me. So, I will defend them from a condemning statement, because I believe he is certainly incorrect.

    In Jesus' Name,

    Grant
     
  20. 3AngelsMom

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    Grant,

    I do not consider what I am doing as 'defending' what I believe, but rather explaining it.

    I found myself in your shoes several weeks ago, and in all honesty it disturbed me that someone would make a judgment about someone else that is salvific. I have since learned that no matter what you or I say about our beliefs or how we feel about our own personally relationship with God, and Jesus, there are those who will always think they know us better than we know ourselves.

    Is it really worth your efforts and time to set these few people straight?

    Can they be set straight?

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     

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