Baptist-Only Forums

Distinction without a difference where it comes to results.

How do you know that you hear God's voice and therefore have the correct interpretion?

 

Does it matter? We must follow the voice that we hear. If it leads us to heaven, then we hear the voice of God, if it does not lead to salvation, then it is not the voice of God.

In any case, we must follow the voice that we hear. The only thing we can do is recognize those who agree with us and call them brothers and sisters in Christ.

Those we do not call brothers and sisters in Christ are God's to judge.

 

Of course it makes sense. My point has nothing to do with nonChristians or pseudoChristian cults. It has everything to do with applying the tenets of the Book of James to every member of this Board, which is, after all, limited to Christians.

That's all well and good. Again, that is not the point I am trying to press in my posts.

Me, too.

 

Did David Koresh hear God's voice? Jim Jones?

The problem with your position is that others suffer when we hear the wrong voice.

 

Kathryn:

The faith is to be in Christ and what HE accomplished. None of the verses you cited
says anything about placing one's faith in
the CHURCH or a church. This is what separates
the sheep from the goats. It is YOUR understanding of the Sacred Scriptures that the
Holy Spirit is striving to nuture and not a
faith in what a "intermediary" says you need to
accept or accomplish. Your spritual growth
depends on your responsibility to study and not on
the responsibility of "church" officials and
THEIR interpretations of scripture... Enlightenment comes TOTALLY from GOD throught the
Holy Spirit.

 

Hi Diane,

Sorry to hear about the unpleasant situation with your daughter's father-in-law. While most Catholics (at least in my acquaintance) are pretty nice folks who do a good job of reflecting Christ's love to others, you occasionally run into one with some rough edges (to say the least!)

Anyhow, along with whatever advice the Baptists can provide, I'd be happy to offer some suggestions from a Catholic viewpoint. Who knows? A Catholic viewpoint might resonate better with your daughter's Catholic (with rough edges) father-in-law than a Baptist one.

Anyhow, as you've described it, your daughter is not a Catholic and her husband is not a practicing Catholic. That being the case, I assume that the Catholic faith is not practiced to any significant degree in your daughter and s-i-l's home. Am I right so far?

If that's the case, I'd suggest that you have your son-in-law (who, after all, should be in charge of keeping intra-family relations with his side of the family on an even keel -- just ask Dr. Laura!) point out to his father that their child isn't even eligible to be baptized under Catholic canon law (unless the child is in immediate danger of death, which I certainly hope isn't true!)

Here's the deal -- under canon law, a child below the age of reason may be baptized ONLY if there is "a well-founded hope" that the child will be brought up in the Catholic faith. In your daughter and s-i-l's household, there's no apparent cause for such a hope. So, a baptism would not be appropriate.

Your s-i-l needs to take the bull by the horns and say, "Look, dad, you know I haven't been to church since 1982 -- I still consider myself Catholic but I'm not really practicing right now, so a baptism just isn't going to happen. And stop blaming it on my lovely wife -- it's not her fault!!!"

One caution -- the father is likely to go down to his parish, tell the pastor only half of the story, and come back saying "My old buddy Rev. So-and-so says he'd be more than happy to baptize little Wilhelmina ... so let's go on down." This is your s-i-l's opportunity to call Rev. So-and-so, give him the REST of the story, and enlist his help in calming his father down.

I suppose that one other option (assuming it's even possible to find a priest willing to baptize the child in this situation) would be to go ahead and do it, just to keep the peace. I realize that from a Baptist standpoint you wouldn't consider the baptism to be a valid or proper one, but I don't think that you'd view it as doing any harm (apart from the fact that it grates on your beliefs a bit). I know that this option probably isn't an appealing one -- I'm just throwing it in for the sake of completeness.

I'm sure there are some other ideas that don't occur to me off the top of my head. I hope you'll at least consider any other Catholics' ideas regarding how to deal with "one of us"!

I pray that God will bless your daughter and her family (including you!) and help them to recover any harmony that has been lost over this issue.

Mark H.

 

A_Christian:

“And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. “ John 20:22

This is the Church I will put my trust. He established it for a reason. He didn't write a book___Jesus Christ left a Church and promised to be with it to the end of time. It has Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone. My faith is in the Way, the Truth, and the Life___Jesus Christ and all He did and taught.

The body of Christ does His work here on earth. The Bible came through His Church. As a matter of fact, it was certain members of the body of Christ that wrote the New Testament and other members at church councils that determined what books would belong to it....all done under inspiration by the Holy Spirit sent by Jesus Christ.

God Bless

 

Mark H, thank you for that information. You are SO right about the father in law! The first child was baptised by the same priest who married the couple. She was 5 months pregnant at the time and that was kept from the priest also.

I'll share that info with our daughter. She has suggested a 'baby dedication' in her Baptist church (which her husband has attended twice...) but that's when the father in law resorted to ugly names.

Well now see... YOU were able to help me in ways I never expected! Thanks for opening my eyes!
Diane

 

Christ throught the movement of the Holy Spirit
wrote BOTH the Old and NEW TESTAMENTS. His
words were given to the prophets and the disciples
for them to give to us.

Where two or more are gathered in the name of
Christ, they ARE the CHURCH. The CHURCH is a
living organism made up of ALL believers...

 

Amen to THAT!

 

No, I don't believe that David Koresh nor Jim Jones heard God's voice.

I don't believe that what happened in these situations has anything to do with my position. These people had to follow what they believed and they have suffered the consequences of following Satan.

 

Diane,

I'm particularly serious about asking your son-in-law to play the major role in resolving this. When you talk to your daughter, suggest that she give him a nudge (in a loving, subtle way of course!) to take the lead in dealing with his dad.

God bless,

Mark

P.S. -- I hope my suggestions help. I can't guarantee success, unfortunately!

 

A_Christian:

Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Jesus Christ didn’t write anything. He could have if he had wanted to. He taught His Apostles and gave them the commission to baptize and teach all he commanded. He breathed on them. He later used His people, His church and their fingers and hands to write His Holy word under inspriration of the Holy Spirit.

In the Old Testaments writings He likewise used His chosen people to write His words. It was in His Church’s councils through the same Holy Spirit He had sent, that the body of Christ sorted through and determined which books were inspired and which were not. This is why Catholics and Protestants have the same New Testament.

Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

Jesus promises to be with those who believe in Him. Scripture does not teach that any two Christians gathered together are the pillar and foundation of truth which Scripture says is His Church.

1 Corinthians 14:33
for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Matthew 18:17
"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

1 Timothy 3:15
but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

3 John 1:10
For this reason, if I come, I will call attention to his deeds which he does, unjustly accusing us with wicked words; and not satisfied with this, he himself does not receive the brethren, either, and he forbids those who desire to do so and puts them out of the church.


“So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.” Eph 5

The Church of Christ is much more than any two or three Christians praying together as Scripture here shows. Jesus Christ left His church the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, and His teaching authority, He left His body.

God Bless

 

No, I don't believe that David Koresh nor Jim Jones heard God's voice.

I don't believe that what happened in these situations has anything to do with my position. These people had to follow what they believed and they have suffered the consequences of following Satan. </font>[/QUOTE]Which brings us right back around to the question -- how do you know?

 

So then, if you don't judge the .1 % because you "don't know their heart", does that mean that you do know the hearts of the other 99.9%?

 

Kathryn:

If you believe in the doctrine of the TRINITY,
them you must accept that Christ through the
influencing power of the Holy Spirit wrote
and edited the entire Bible. Revelations is
an obvious example.

 

... and kicking and screaming is the thread moved back into its original point...

(a sentence just for those of us who love the NASB, or Yoda Translation)

... since we "guests" are are restricted to certain areas, are we "allowed" to cut-and-paste quotes from Baptist-only areas into those we are, albiet grudgingly, allowed to post?

 

And the Holy Spirit works through men.

Do you know which men looked at the writings of the Apostles and recognized which of them are inspired and thus Scripture?

 

I don't know. Only God knows. That is the way it is for everyone no matter what. All we can do is base our decisions on what we believe to be right based on the voice that we hear. If it is God's then we believed the truth and will be saved. If it is Satan's then we were deceived and we will suffer the consequences.

To quote Paul:

1 Corinthians 4:3-4

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

 

It really does bug you that you can't control this board, like the RCC has attempted to control ALL Christianity, thru ALL time, doesn't it ?