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Baptist? OSAS? pretrib or post-trib?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ed Edwards, Oct 20, 2007.

?

Which of the following to you believe?

Poll closed Feb 17, 2008.
  1. Baptist + OSAS + pretrib

    43.8%
  2. Baptist + OSAS + post-trib

    10.4%
  3. Baptist + non-OSAS + pretrib

    2.1%
  4. Baptist + non-OSAS + post-trib

    6.3%
  5. non-Baptist + OSAS + pretrib

    2.1%
  6. non-Baptist + OSAS + post-trib

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. non-Baptist + non-OSAS + pretrib

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. non-Baptist + non-OSAS + post-trib

    6.3%
  9. not any three of those

    22.9%
  10. say what?

    6.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Interesting poll.

    Click on any of the numbers of votes and
    you can see who voted how. You can do
    this if you are a member without voting first.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In my post "REAL" means "REAL not spiritually etherial - not to be taken as non-literal"


    Is there ANYONE who claims to be "a-mill" but believes in a "literal 1000 year period" between the first resurreciton coming of Christ and the 2nd resurrection?

    If so - I have not seen them post here.

    You are claiming that people who believe in a literal 1000 year millennium call themselves "a-mill".

    Please show me where that is coming from.

    This we believe -
    pre-mill means:
    the Second Coming of Jesus before
    the Millennial Messanic Kingdom

    post-mill means:
    the Millennial Messanic Kingdom before
    the Second Coming of Jesus

    a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.

    As pointed out - in Matt 24 we see a post-trib Pre-mill 2nd coming
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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  4. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    I must say that I agree with Rob on this, BUT, having looked at Ed Sutton's post again, he doesn't (as far as I can see) say anything about whether the thousand years are literal or figurative, though he implies the latter, by saying that amillennialists believe the millennial reign to be spiritually discerned:
    1. a-millennial - the Millennial reign of Christ is to be
    spiritually discerned, not physically.
    (Two subgroups divide according to
    if the Second Coming of Christ is to be
    spiritually discerned ONLY or has spiritual + physical
    parameters)//


     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Very often you find amillenialists declaring that the millennium is a figure of speech referring to the "church age" since some time near the time of Christ until this very day - coverng more than 1000 literal years.

    I have not seen anyone on this board claiming to believe in an amillennial view AND also claiming that it is a literal 1000 year period of time starting at the 2nd coming as Rev 20 states.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    //You are claiming that people who believe in a literal 1000
    year millennium call themselves "a-mill".//

    Yes. But you may have missed some of what I meant.

    there are those who think 'spiritual' = real & literal
    (I don't agree with them).
    So to distinguish between these 'spiritual' Millennial
    Messanic Kingdom believers who are a-mill and myself
    who is pre-mill -- I say that their spiritual Millennial
    Messanic Kingdom is NOT PHYSICAL.

    //a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.//

    I disagree (I have to talk to actual mystics who spiritualize most
    everythig that they can)

    All these are 'spiritual' realities that are quite 'real'
    (But they sure won't happen in the flesh /i.e. be physical
    instead of spiritual):

    Jesus comes again to each person when they die
    Heaven is a spiritual place for the saved
    Hell is a spiritual place for the unsaved
    The Millennial Messanic Kingdom is Heaven, (i.e. a spiritual place)

    etc., etc.

    Here is my definition of a-mill:

    a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years
    of Rev 20 is 'spiritual' in nature (not a physical 1000 year
    period of time)
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Do we have any examples of that -- anywhere?

    Someone claiming a literal 1000 year millennium AND claiming that their view is "a-mill"?

    These guys seem to have the right definition -

    http://www.reformedreader.org/mchart.htm
     
    #47 BobRyan, Jan 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2008
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    //a- mill, with the prefix 'a-', meaning that the 1000 years of Rev 20 is not a literal 1000 year period of time.//

    this statement means that the 'millennium' is not exactly 1,000
    years long but that the 1,000 is symbolic of a LARGE NUMBER
    (some who think we are IN THE MELLINNIAL MESSANIC
    KINGDOM /you know, folk who don't read newspapers
    or history books/ say it has been going nearly 2,000 now so
    it has to mean LARGE NUMBER)

    The a-mills have to have Revelation 20 in their Bible
    and do something with it. I'm saying that they say
    the Millennial Messanic Kingdom is spiritually discerned
    (i.e. 'spiritual') -- it is real, it is literal - it just
    isn't physically discerned, it is spiritually discerned.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
    But the naturall man perceiueth not the things
    of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishnesse vnto him:
    neither can hee knowe them,
    because they are spiritually discerned
    .
     
  9. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    I would go further, Bob, and say that I have never seen or heard of anybody, whether on this board, or anywhere else, claiming to believe in an amillennial view AND also claiming that it is a literal 1000 year period of time starting at the 2nd coming. It would seem to be a contradiction in terms.
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    KenH recently posted that he is amill -- I have asked if he ever heard of an amill group claiming that there is a real 1000 year Millennium that begins at the 2nd coming event of Rev 19.

    Ed recently posted that one of his Amill definitions allows for what we see today - AMill groups that do not hold to a literal 1000 year period starting at the 2nd coming as the "millennium".

    ---

    In the mean time - I am pre-mill and Post-trib. Believing in a literal 1000 year millennium starting at the 2nd coming and separating the first resurrection from the 2nd.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    The poll is closed.

    Is the topic still open (can be posted in)?
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Poll closed -- election over --

    But I would vote - Non-Baptist, non-OSAS, post-trib

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Actually, you did vote Brother BobRyan, exactly as you said.

    So we have found one good thing about suspending the voting after 3 months -- one can vote again!
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is often very difficult for me to remember what I voted 3 months ago -- so you are right -- I could be posting on this topic all year -- about once every 3 months to give my "vote" - ;)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  15. Palatka51

    Palatka51 New Member

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    I have a Baptist prewrath and OSAS outlook on scripture. Is it better to vote late than never?
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Can a Baptist be Amillenialist?
     
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    It is better to vote late than never.
     
  18. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    Of course so! I'm one, and I know plenty of others. Why do you imagine the two terms ("baptist" and "Amillenial") are mutualy exclusive?
     
  19. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Short answer: YES

    Long answer: Baptist Preacher DeafPosttrib is an amillennialist.

    'Amillennial' refers to the belief that the Millennial Messanic Kingdom is to be discerned as a spiritual truth NOT a physical truth. There are several kinds of a-mills:

    1. Post-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture only:
    This belief is that the post-trib appearance of Christ is a physical truth

    2. A-Tribulation:
    The Resurrection/Rapture/ Second Coming of Christ and tribulation is to be discerned as a spiritual truth NOT a physical truth.

    Favorite a-mill verses:

    2Pe 3:10 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Editiion):
    But the day of the Lord will come as a thiefe in the night, in the which the heauens shall passe away with a noyse, and the elements shall melt with heate, and the earth with the workes that are therein, shalbe burnt vp.


    1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Editiion):

    Which things also we speake, not in the woordes which mans wisedome teacheth, but which the holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spirituall things with spirituall things.
    14 But the naturall man perceiueth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishnesse vnto him: neither can hee knowe them, because they are spiritually discerned.

     
  20. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    No. But most Baptist I run into aren't. The more I study the more Amillenial I become. To be honest I'm not sure about a pretrib rapture or a paranthetical church age. I believe Jesus will return in totality not partially and I believe in the judgement. Where does that place me?
     
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