Featured Baptist Preacher Exorcises Demons From Dungeons and Dragon Users--Past & Future

I agree, in part. True believers cannot be POSSESSED by devils but they can be OPPRESSED by devils and it can look exactly like the same thing. I've seen it many times and even recorded deliverance sessions with people who had been Christians for many years.


You need to consider II Corinthians 10:3-5 for it was written to Christians,not sinners:

2 Corinth. 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

Those strongholds, like the strongholds in ancient Canaan, are manned by the enemy (i.e. devils) and the battle takes place INSIDE the mind. Proof:

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

 

The good news here is that NO true Christian though needs to sray affected by satan and his cohorts, as the blodd of Jesus cleanses us from all sins, and we are right now secured in Christ, and have his spirit residing in us to deliver us!

For the christian, its all a matter of confession/repenting/forsaking in the power of the Spirit...

 

Thanks for your views, Yeshua.

May the Lord bless you.

 

Interesting that you say "unquestionably". I questioned it. It's very obviously NOT demonic to those who actually know anything about it.

Neither can the fact that those are evil beings in the game that will destroy the character at first chance.

I challenge you to show me even one case where it can be concluded, by a reasonable and unbiased person, that D&D caused their insanity.

Brother, I too take the spiritual realm very seriously. Which is why I find it very hard to believe that a demon that once posed as a god would belittle himself to possess a human. If that word was there as you say, then likely it was a lesser demon trying to appear as one more powerful.

But, my study of (not from the outside, but actually from believers in) Wicca, paganism, witchcraft, and to a much lesser degree, Satanism, allows me to see that D&D is not evil. The most evil it is capable of is causing so many to focus on it and ignore what's really going on.

 

That attitude would change if you were to be confronted with people who were demonized by an obsession with that role playing game. I have quite a few accounts listed in my files of people who developed obsessions, compulsions, lost touch with reality, or went completely insane because of that game.

That's incorrect. I have directly encountered virtually all of the devils with biblical names as mentioned in the game in the last 27 years and we know of the reality of them. They had to be cast out just like all other devils we encountered.

It doesn't affect everyone in the same way....just like Ouija boards do not affect everyone the same; but it is nonetheless demonic.

And just who qualifies as a reasonable, unbiased person? Would someone who has seen the demonic influence of that game qualify?

I would dig that long list I mentioned above out of my files...but why? If you've already made up your mind to not believe it then it would serve no purpose. It's an out-of-date dead and gone game anyway, so why bother?

Well, maybe, perhaps that is because you are inexperienced in spiritual warfare and deliverance from devils. Have you ever been directly involved in casting out devils from those obviously demonized? Have you ever been involved in cleansing a house that was haunted with poltergeist (demonic) spirits? I'm just curious.

I will be polite but nonetheless, you happen to be wrong about that. It's not like the devil did not make it obvious:



That last devil is 'Drider' & he is a horrible wretch. In 1994 a Christian lady was brought to me right after a church service by her husband who had driven 130 miles desperate to see me. His wife was out of her mind and continually attacked him physically while he was driving. She was demonized by this very spirit and it twice knocked her out cold by stinging her in the back of the neck and she fell faint on our living room couch. It took all afternoon to revive her (twice) and she had two large welts just under her hairline where the stinger went in. The Holy Spirit forced the devil to reveal himself as 'Drider', she confessed her sin and finally we were able to eliminate it. We saw this invisible devil pounce on her and her body bounced up and down off of a bed so hard I thought it was going to break her spine. It was so much like what happened to the little girl in the Exorcist movie I could hardly believe my eyes.

I may not convince you but I am telling you honestly some of what we've seen and those devils in D & D are real, not imaginary.

I would kindly suggest a careful study of II Corinthians 10:4-5.

2 Cor 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

 

Sounds like you should have taken her to the hospital.

 

Why? She was delivered from darkness in the name of Jesus and went home healed.

 

So is demonic possession mental illness? Demonic forces attack the mind!

Mark 5:15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

We see that the one that was chained to tombs is now a changed man!

Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord , of one mind.

3: let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4: Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5: Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus

Brother Glen

 

Amen. Thank you for that.

 

No one has ever been documented to go insane, etc, because of the game. They have been documented to have gone insane, etc, while also playing the game, but that's it. I bet you they also weren't reading their bibles. Does that mean that not reading your bible is cause to go insane? Again, not one single account can be proven to be related to the game. Anyone who has gotten obsessed with the game, lost touch with reality, or anything like that had that type of personality already, and should not have been exposed to the game, just like they should not be exposed to anything harmless that would exacerbate their current condition.

What do you mean, that's incorrect? It's fact. In the game, all those demons that you are talking about are evil, and will kill the character the first chance they get. There's no "that's incorrect". It's fact. It's the way the game is played. If the character meets them, they must vanquish them or be destroyed by them.

Ouija boards are a different class altogether. In D&D you do not summon a spirit. You do not directly ask an entity for help. You do not invite demons into your home.

Someone who cannot take an objective look at something without coming to the table with a pre-conceived idea would not count.

I have not made up my mind about many things. Things that are doctrine, I have, such as Salvation. But most other things, I leave my mind open to the possibility that I am wrong. That's why I was able to see the game for what it was, instead of the evil entity that I was told for years that it was. The challenge stands.

If you believe that, then that shows what little you know of the game. The game has just released its 5th edition, updating from 4th edition and returning to an edition more closely resembling 3rd and 3.5. Millions of people play this game everyday. Like I said in another post, when I asked soldiers if people wanted to get a group together, I had to turn people away. At the "geek store" (where socially awkward intellectuals gather to play games) where I played Warhammer 40k (a futuristic tactical game played with miniatures) there were always 3-4 groups of 5-6 people playing. The game is far from dead. In fact, it's growing.

What lead me to begin my studies years ago was an apparent "haunting" of a house that I lived in, in Morris, Illinois. I was an assistant pastor / youth pastor at the time, and once the entity was gone, I was curious as to how an entity could "haunt" my house, with me being close to God, faithful in my devotions. I was physically touched (although not harmed) by an unseen entity. Yes, I have had very real dealings with the spirit realm. I will not go much further into my history with them, as I do not wish it to be public knowledge. But, suffice it to say, I know about the spirit realm. From the Christian side, and the other side.

I, too, will be polite. You are far from the truth. "Drider" is not a proper name. It is a race. It is a totally corporeal (non spiritual) race. It is actually a punishment to become a Drider. The evil Drow (dark elves who live deep underground) worship the spider. Their highest punishment is to turn a Drow into a half-Drow/half-spider creature (Drow + spider = Drider). Even the picture you shared shows that these creatures appear in groups of 1-4, and therefor is not one entity, but a race. Look at the picture you showed. It's much like a centaur (horse/man), but Drow/Spider.

Let me share with you an insight I have found to be true in 100% of the cases I have dealt with. When a demon enters a person's mind, they cannot place images there that a person has not already seen physically or mentally themselves already. That's why when a person describes what they've been shown by a demon it always resembles something from Hollywood. It will look like the girl off the movie Grudge, or something else frightening that they've seen or had described to them.

Someone in the room with you had seen that picture of a Drider. Did the demon speak out loud to reveal it's name? Doubtful, though possible. Even if it spoke through the woman, it was likely she had seen it before. Most likely, the demon did not speak out loud, but you, yourself told the family the name of the creature attacking this woman. You probably believed it to be the Holy Ghost speaking to you and giving you clarity, when in reality it was your subconscious reaching into your memory banks for something plausible as an explanation. You see, when people are attacked by a demon, either oppressed or possessed, our finite minds want to relate this new and unseen danger to something tangible. So we allow our minds to conjure an image we've seen, and we attach it to the unseen force. This, in my (studied) opinion, is why all the demons you've encountered all had names that were in that book.

Simple question, and mostly rhetorical, who is it that made the proclamation of the demons' names in your sessions? Without knowing you or the people you've helped, I would wager that in over 95% of the cases, you were the one who discerned the name. Because your mind attached the unseen force to an image that you had seen previously, in the monster manual.

I believe that you are being as honest as you can be. I believe that you are mistaken, however. I do not wish you to see me as "against" you. I feel that you are misguided in this area. Not in demon possession as a whole, but in this area of the demonic names and specifically their relationship to D&D. I feel that if you would do an honest and open minded study of D&D that you would be released from the trap of assigning all these evil entities to a book that was written for entertainment, and would become more affective in your field. Again, don't look at this as an attack, but an attempt to help you become more effective.

Honestly, aside from this one issue (D&D) I feel that you and I are coming from the same direction. I feel that we could have some good fellowship, sharing insights that we've discovered on the subject.

I can assure you, I have studied that passage. Also Ephesians 6 is a good one to look at in this area.

I realize that most of this is anecdotal, as are most things dealing with this area. But I assure you I have studied the Bible in this area. My studies have also led me to many extrabiblical sources written from many different viewpoints. My knowledge is not lax. My understanding just differs from yours in this area.

 

I wanted to take a second and give a short explanation on Dungeons and Dragons, and while this is not exhaustive, hopefully it will provide some insight.

Firstly, the player does not cast spells or summon demons. The character may, but it is simply stated as, "xyz casts fireball" or something similar. There is no chanting a recitation or verse, or anything. If there is, this ceases to be D&D and is something else made up by the group that may be dangerous.

Secondly, D&D is not people dressing in robes and performing ceremonies. Again, if it is, it is something different than D&D. That's not to say that this does not occur, but it is not D&D.

Third, "Roleplaying" does not mean that someone is pretending to be another person. It means that they are playing a role. In the popular NES game, Super Mario Brothers, the player is playing the role of an Italian plumber who jumps on turtles. It is roleplaying. In Madden NFL, the player is playing the role of a professional football player. It is role playing. When your kids go outside and play "cops and robbers", it is roleplaying. "Roleplaying" should not ever have a negative connotation to it, although in the Christian realm it seems to. Last night, I put a sheet over me and acted like a monster that my 3 girls were attacking. We were roleplaying.

Fourth, and this is a big one, not everyone who claims to be playing D&D are playing D&D. As said above, if someone dresses up, it's not D&D. If someone chants a spell, it's not D&D. Live Action RolePlay (LARP) is a different matter altogether, but again, not harmful unless you add to it, and start chanting spells and incantations you found in a spell book. If you throw a beanbag and yell "lightning bolt" to simulate a lightning bolt cast, that's harmless. If you pretend to summon a demon to attack your enemies, and start chanting something you found in the Keys of Solomon, then you've left the realm of playing and may be in some serious trouble.

Fifth, D&D, while popular, is not the only Role Playing Game (RPG) out there. There are hundreds, possibly thousands. Not all of them are fantasy medieval, either. Some are sci-fi, some are modern day (such as SWAT, in which your character is a member of a SWAT team and must clear buildings, rescue hostages, etc). D&D was not even the first RPG. It was an evolution of an RPG that was an evolution of a tabletop warfare strategy game.

Sixth, contrary to popular belief, Gary Gygax was not a Satanist. He was a Christian. He was horrified to hear that his game got the reputation amongst other Christians that it did. He wrote the rules of the game purely for entertainment value, because he wanted to control a single individual, rather than entire companies of troops that he did in tabletop warfare strategy games.

Seventh, every report I've seen that attached D&D to demon oppression/possession has come from someone who started with the premise that D&D was evil and looked for clues to back that up, rather than seeing clues and then coming to that conclusion. The pioneer against D&D (Patricia Pulling) decided D&D was evil when her son committed suicide. She blamed the game, when police decided that it was her overbearingness as a parent that drove her son to commit suicide. She then went on a rampage against D&D, attaching it to every homicide/suicide she found. She then founded BADD, Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons.

She got her private investigator's license, and became a police consultant on game-related cases. She lost every single court case. She even treated the Necronomicon, a made up book, as if it were real and available for reading to anyone who wanted it. Sadly, conservatives, especially Baptists, latched on to her writings as if they were Gospel. Her questions and answers showed that she honestly had zero clue about the game, despite her being an "expert" on gaming.

The American Association for Suicidology, the CDC, and Health and Welfare Canada have all stated that there is no correlation between fantasy gaming and suicide.

The biggest thing to bring out here, is that there are zero cases in which a person started playing D&D and committed suicide or got demon possessed. Now, there are cases that someone got demon possessed and happened to be playing D&D. But, in all of these cases the person already had some type of mental instability in which they could not distinguish reality from fiction (I had a student like that in Illinois who couldn't even watch cartoons without thinking they were real) or they delved into actual occult things alongside playing D&D.

My challenge still stands to anyone to show me a single case where D&D was the cause of possession/oppression or homicide/suicide. And if the source comes from Patricia Pulling, it will automatically be dismissed, because she has been proven to alter facts to suit her purposes (such as leaving out pieces of letters to her, or mixing and matching two different stories to make one story that proves her point).

 

The truth is the in the cross of christ, God broke the hold and power of satan over us, as we are no longer captive to fear of feath, or of getting under his control, as greater is he that is in us then he that is in the world!

 

This is getting time consuming so I will make this my last. But concerning your statement I underlined why need I argue that point further?

That is not an issue I raised.

Not true. But again, if I thought you could truly be persuaded I would indeed dig up all of those accounts that I collected in the 80's and early 90's.

And yet the players sometimes utilize other 'monsters' - 'characters' to vanquish their enemies. Virtually all of them are demonic including Kampfult, Shade, Titanus, and a host of others.

So, even though it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck so therefore it is NOT a duck.

I did not come to the table with a pre-conceived idea. I learned by experience; nearly 32 years as a pastor and 27 of those years in direct and open conflict with the forces of darkness. I'm not giving you guesswork or opinions I am giving you facts. But if you involved yourself in that role playing game and came to like it then I understand perfectly why you feel the way you do.

Your challenge won't do one thing to change the truth of this matter.

I question those figures but rather than argue this point I will take your word for it.But tell us plainly: are you now involved in playing the game?

That's not what I asked. I ask you if you had ever been directly involved in demonic deliverance concerning casting out devils and/or if you had ever been involved in helping people whose houses were haunted.

Thanks.

But that is what Gygax put into the game! It's pretend stuff. By contrast what we faced was the reality behind it when that woman was attacked by.............I already stated it: Drider. I had never heard of it before that. Are you trying to tell me that Gygax's 'Drider' is a legitimate reality but the spider devil we faced was not? I don't buy it, young fellow.

That is not true. I helped a thirteen year old boy through deliverance in September, 2007. The devil was a 'Golum' as per The Lord of the Rings. When the devil took over his personality he was acting and talking exactly like "Smeagol' (the Golum) did in the movie. I naturally thought he had been spiritually infected by that movie so I asked him when he came to himself if he had ever viewed the movie. He told me 'no' because his parents wouldn't let him watch movies like that. He didn't even know what a 'Golum' was or what it looked like for he had never seen it.(note: in the game he is called "Boggle" but most devils have more than one name.).

Question: Do you honestly think that the sweet, pure, Holy Spirit led Gary Gygax to produce THIS?




But what I said above is just one example.

Not so. I could produce at least two witnesses for this if it came to that.

Answer: the devils themselves. Concerning the same woman I spoke of earlier she had a demon called 'anorexia' and literally controlled her mind by causing her to think that whenever she looked into a mirror she saw herself fat. But it took over her body screaming at me with the most wretched, raspy voice. After the devil told me who it was & what it's ground was I soon cast it into the pit by the name of Jesus Christ. That horribly thin woman then gained 40 lbs within a year. That was a lesson I'll never forget.


Everything I have told you so far happened before 1998. I didn't see the Monster Manual by Gygax for the first time until then. It was then I began to make the connections by what we had already learned.

I am not too proud to admit that I am wrong, when in fact I can be persuaded of it but I can't do that on this matter without violating my conscience. I see no need to heed someone who is very limited in both knowledge and experience in such matters. It's good that you know your Bible but knowing your Bible with years of experience makes for a world of difference.

That would be nice but my advice to you is: learn to discern evil regardless as to what form it takes. You are lacking in that area.

What you lack is what I just mentioned: experience. Experience does so much to bring out the full meaning of scripture.

Best wishes. This will be my last reply on the matter.

 

If you can't tell the difference between going insane due to something, and going insane while doing something, I hope you never serve on a jury.

You're right. It's an issue I raised to show the flaw in your logic.

I don't need you to dig up all the accounts. I want one. If there is even one, I will issue you a public apology, and completely change my stance on D&D. The problem is, there isn't any.

True.

Untrue. Virtually all of them are NOT demonic, and the ones that are attack the player as well, if given the chance. It's seen as an evil act to call upon a demonic entity, and will result in the other non-player characters (NPCs) attacking the character.

Yes, dismiss the differences I pointed out with a wave of your hand, instead of engaging them. Again:

I really am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. In fact, some friends have told me that I am being too nice, and that you're a troll. But I'm approaching this as if you are sincere. Ask anyone on this board, and they will back me up here. I try to be open and non-judgmental about things. But the more you talk about the experiences you've had, the less likely it seems that you are legit.

Is that supposed to be a trump? I didn't play the game for years because I grew up being taught that it was evil. That to play the game was to invite Satan into your home. Then, I started studying it. The more I learned about it, the more I realized that those who condemned the game were doing so with good intentions, but based upon faulty ideas about the game.

You're right, it won't. But you're accepting the challenge would.

As in this second? Not really. I despised 4th edition, and quit playing. I'm thinking of getting back into 5th edition though, as its rules are more comparable to 3.0 and 3.5, somewhat even 2nd.

I figured my answer would suffice. But, a direct answer to your question: yes.

So, what he put in the game is pretend when I talk about it, but real when you do? The drider is pretend, but the demons are real? Talk about having your cake and eating it, too.

No, I'm telling you that none of it is a legitimate reality.

As if age has anything to do with it.

I'm going to call your bluff there. If you think that the movie Lord of the Rings could "spiritually infect" someone, then the conversation is pretty much over. It's very deluded to think so, and shows that you are on a witch hunt for demons. (Let me refer you to the winky face in another thread. You assumed it was demonic, instead of looking for an explanation.)

J.R.R. Tolkien was a Christian man (who witnessed to and was responsible for the salvation of C.S. Lewis, btw) who wrote fairy tales in an attempt to introduce people to allegorical concepts of Christianity. The whole story of LOTR is a loose allegory covering many topics, from the very basic good vs evil to the death and resurrection and return of Christ. If you find something objectionable in LOTR, again, you are on a witch hunt, which puts all your stories into question, as you obviously assume things are demonic, when they are not (the demon "anorexia"? Really?).

No, I think his amazing imagination caused him to conceive of an idea that eventually grew to a phenomenon.

Up until your responses of the demonic LOTR and the demon "anorexia", I might have believed you. Not now. You're way out in left field on all this.

Yeah...like I said, you're on a witch hunt. Thousands of women suffer from anorexia. It's a disease, not a demon. Unless you're one of those who think that mental conditions are all demonic. If so, I have no more to say to you, as we have a serious problem.

You sound like some people I know, that think that they have princes and principalities hounding them at all times, as if they, a measly human, were worthy of that kind of attention. It's a witch hunt.

Then show me even one case where D&D is the culprit. Just one.

You know what assuming does...

Funny, I was going to give you the same advice. You are lacking in that area.

Again, assumptions...

I hope not. You've addressed hardly anything I've said. If you are so sure of yourself in the truth, I'd think you'd have no problem showing me that I am wrong. Just one case. That's all I'm asking for.

 

I politely told you, 'We're done'.

P.S. I fully intend to stay out in... left field.:thumbsup: Bye.

 

Me thinks someone has a personal infatuation with all things demonic.

 

Methinks you don't know me.

 

Well, if your position is one of defending Dungeons and Dragons then I'd rather not.

That depends on the need and from where people call me for help. I have been as far away as Witchita Falls, Texas, Oklahoma City, Okla. and Pittsburg, PA to help those who asked for it. Most of it is done right here at home.

Thanks for the inquiry.

 

Twice you have been asked to provide some of these stories and twice you have been unable to do so. Your credibility is sinking further only proving my point.