Baptist/Protestant

Amy, it just depends on one's view of Baptist origins. I believe that Baptists as we know them today come from a movement in England during the early seventeenth century. Two separate strands, the General and Particular Baptists, emerged during that time with influences that include a mixture of Anabaptist, Anglican, Congregationalist, Independents, and perhaps Puritan (if you can define Puritanism). People like me who believe this consider Baptists to be Protestants. Anabaptists have survived, and the most common Anabaptist denomination in America are the Mennonites.

Others argue that Baptists have never been part of the Catholic/Protestant history and have experienced persecution from both Catholics and Protestants throughout church history. This idea really gained ground in the nineteenth century when J. R. Graves popularized it with his Landmark movement. Today, no historians of note believe it since it lacks evidence. I'm sure some people here would defend it, and they can give you their reasons.

There may also be some who link Baptists today to the continental Anabaptists, but this also lacks evidence. Anabaptists do not consider themselves Protestants because of the persecution they received from Lutherans and the Reformed. Most of it came from a famous rebellion led by Thomas Muntzer. Lutherans and Reformed thought they needed to distance themselves from Anabaptists in order to escape political persecution themselves for being too radical. Furthermore, when Protestants did have political power, they felt it necessary to persecute Anabaptists because they considered them as a threat.

If you're interested, I highly recommend Bill Brackney's "A Genetic History of Baptist Thought." It is a little different than standard Baptist histories, but he does a good job weaving the different factors and tracing the different movements. I consider Brackney a leading Baptist historian today.

BJ

 

There is a lack of evidence, however, I do believe some group later linked to Baptists existed along side the Catholic Church from 500 AD to the Reformation. Remember, the Catholic Church did not exist until around 500.

Regardless of which view one holds, that we came out of the Reformation or have always existed since Christ, what I do not understand is why some look at the Reformation as a bad thing. The Protestant denominations that came out of the Reformation are a vast improvement over the Catholic Church.

 

Protestants are those that came out of the Catholic Church at the Reformation. The major ones are Lutheran, Methodist, Episcapalian, Presbyterian, and many other denominations. Some such as the Episcapalians, are closer to Catholic tradition, and the Presbyterians further away. As said above, Baptists are in this group or not depending on their origin.

The main difference between Baptists and most other protestant denominations is baptism (immersion and no infants). Another big difference is that each Baptist church is an independent unit, and not part of a heirarchy such as the denominations listed above. The SBC is not a denomination, but an affiliation of churches, with the SBC having no governing control over its members.

 

Yes.

And the word Protestant, if I understand it correctly, came from Martin Luther nailing his 17 theses on the door of a church in Germany (?).

 

History shows that the Catholic Church goes back to Peter, here's a list of the first 20 I found from the internet.

St. Peter (32-67)
St. Linus (67-76)
St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
St. Clement I (88-97)
St. Evaristus (97-105)
St. Alexander I (105-115)
St. Sixtus I (115-125) -- also called Xystus I
St. Telesphorus (125-136)
St. Hyginus (136-140)
St. Pius I (140-155)
St. Anicetus (155-166)
St. Soter (166-175)
St. Eleutherius (175-189)
St. Victor I (189-199)
St. Zephyrinus (199-217)
St. Callistus I (217-22)
St. Urban I (222-30)
St. Pontain (230-35)
St. Anterus (235-36)
St. Fabian (236-50)

It's Ok to be a Baptist/Protestant but there's no need to change history.

Grace56

 

There is no evidence that Peter was the first Pope, or any of the other saints you listed. If Peter was the first Pope, the local church described in Acts would have the characteristics of the Catholic Church. There is nothing in common.

Paul established churches for the gentiles, not Peter.

There are thousands of references to the origin of the Catholic church.

 

Since I sometimes 'protest' certain things, I guess I am a protestant, at least at those times. :smilewinkgrin:

Ed

 

Actually Episcopalians are the American version of Anglicans, whose origins have nothing to do with the Reformation on the European continent. The Anglican church began in 16th Century England when Pope Clement VII refused to annul the marriage of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon. Henry wanted to marry Anne Boleyn, so he divorced Catherine and proceeded to marry Anne, whereupon he was excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church. In response, Henry prevailed on Parliment to name the King as head of the Church of England. And so it is today.
Methodists were a protestant outgrowth of the Church of England, led by John and Charles Wesley.

 

Thanks for the correction. That may explain why they as more like the Catholics than others. I am thankful I am a Baptist, and would be nothing else.

 

I think the problem is that people use a word in different ways. Some use "Protestant" only for individuals and churches that broke away from the Roman Catholic Church. Others, including my (secular) dictionary, use the same word of a church or individual that is not RC. My dictionary says:

"member of church rejecting papal authority: a member or adherent of any denomination of the Western Christian church that rejects papal authority and some fundamental Roman Catholic doctrines, and believes in justification by faith."

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In the first sense, Baptists are not Protestants, as they were never part of the Roman Catholic setup. But Baptists do "reject papal authority and some fundamental Roman Catholic doctrines", and we do "believe in justification by faith", so in that sense we are Protestants.

​

 

I agree 100%.

I know of no Baptists that believe that Peter was Catholic or the first Pope.

 

We can speculate all day as to whether Peter was Catholic or whether he was the first Pope. But there is no denying that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome.

So we have ancient historical evidence of the first four bishops of Rome. Benedict XVI is the 265th Bishop of Rome.

 

I do not live by this book. I live by the BIBLE.

Chapter and verse from the Bible proving that Peter was catholic OR bishop of Rome please?

 

Zenas, I think you are more Catholic than Baptist in your beliefs.
Catholics accept other writings to be at a par with the Bible, while Baptists hold that the Bible is the test by which other writings stand or fall.
The Bible does not indicate Peter ever being in Rome, while it plainly states that Paul lived in Rome for sometime, so if anyone ever should think of a first bishop in Rome, I think it should be Paul.
That being said, remember that the word bishop refers to the pastor, so the first bishop is really the pastor of the Roman church, and that was definitely not Peter.

 

But pinoy, it is impossible for the Bible to speak of history from the yr 100 to today... That is why we must examine the writings of the early church fathers as well....

All the Bible is true, but not all truth can be found in the Bible...

Martin Luther nailed his thesis to the door... that is true, but not in the Bible... BUT it is still true.

During the middle ages, within the countries that had R.Catholic rule, ALL citizens were catholic.. they were baptized into the church as babies, and any that refused was killed... so Baptists had to come out of the Catholic Church. That is why the term anabaptists surfaced...

 

Tinytim you make alot of sense.

Grace56