Baptist View on Gluttony, Lust, Etc.

So let me get this straight. You do not actually believe what you said in the first post I commented on? It is your position that it is not true at all?

 

My point is that the Christian church today spends too much time in thinking moderation. It focuses on moderation in Jesus and moderation in everything else too. They focus on a comfortable moderate sized house. It is not about moderation, but about knowing God and what He requires in being led by the Holy Spirit. If I were around someone who was hungry and I only had a little food it might mean I go without or share but not moderation for myself first. Moderation compared to what?

 

What is your source?

 

I was in a church service many years ago and the pastor asked the congregation to name off some really bad sins. All the hands went up, the pastor picked one member and she said, "Smoking", following by all agreeing with a hearty Amen. This happened three times until "smoking", "drinking", and using "drugs" were all covered.

Then, for some reason the pastor asked the 4th time if one could name another sin and I was the only one with my hand raised. He had to call on me.

I replied, "gluttony" and you could hear a pin drop in the church.

...course, you would have needed to be there to appreciate the impact.

 

I think you and I have two views of moderation. The moderation I propose has to do with self discipline and subjecting our whole selves to Christ. Its what use to be known as Mortification. However, I don't use that term because of the unintended perception of people wipping themselves or wearing Hair shirts. I'm suggesting a disciplined lifestyle in every aspect from eating, to clothing, to whatever.

 

I agree with you 100%. I think in many ways thew church today has gone away from living a disciplined life under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to one of guidance under someone else's conviction and/or words, rather than be free under Christ. I think a lot of what we see posted on the BB are struggles with "getting it right" rather than wrestling with God. We are not free until we come away with a heart of conviction after wrestling with God. That is when God works and that is much deeper than the surface measurement of what others think. When God gives the conviction, we walk away with a sureness and steadfastness of knowing beyond what anyone thinks.

 

Read it in the state convention's newspaper. Probably 2000 or 2001 when the convention or some large gathering was held there.

 

Friend, it was an obvious exaggeration meant to prove a point. It helps to understand the nuance. Truth is that many out there only get worked up about a handful of sinful actions and attitudes. Other things, like gluttony or gossip or slander or any number of other things are largely ignored. This mindset is pervasive in the SBC. If your experience is different, then maybe I should move out west.

 

So now we have established it was not really a joke. And you in fact meant it. What you liberals always refuse to acknowledge with this issue is the reason why we get so worked up;

1. The impact on peoples lives are much more severe with sexual sins then it is with the other list you created.
2. No one is going to congress and trying to make things like gossip an accepted lifestyle by passing laws to support it. Which is why sexual sins come up more often than things like gluttony. But then you already knew that.

I would add that it is not necessary to condemn everything on your list just because the sexual issues come up. We do not find it necessary to prove to folks like yourself that we are against any of those other things when sexual issues come up. It is an absurd notion and raises suspicion that folks like yourself only want to downplay the effects of things like homosexuality. Trying to compare homosexuality or any other sexual sin to gossip is like trying to compare murder to lying. Not even in the same ballpark.

 

Amen! Very well stated, gb!

 

1) I am not a liberal, politically or theologically.
2) Liberals are not the enemy. Satan is the enemy.
4) Using labels pejoratively are unhelpful.
3) There have been many instances where gluttony, envy, gossip, etc. have ruined people's lives. The consequences for sexual sin can be great, but those who struggle with them are not more sinful, nor are their sins more condemning than those of anyone else.

 

If you want to assume I use it as a pejorative that is your choice. What is interesting is that liberals like yourself do not require that gluttony be brought up when we discuss things like murder etc. Only when it comes to things like homosexuality. Very telling it is.

 

What is a liberal?

 

your theology

 

Why do you persist in labeling?

I'd bring it up anytime this issue came up. Murder isn't really a hot-button debate topic.

 

I'm not afraid of labels. And I do it across the board.

Neither is gluttony except by those who try to down play homosexuality.

 

There are some here who will call you liberal if you take seriously Christ's teachings on how we are to treat others.

Gluttony is a sin ... and a very popular one among Americans and Baptists. It seems that many either do not know the meaning of gluttony, or refuse to accept its definition.

From dictionary.com

Sit on a bench and watch people go by. It is not hard to see who has been over eating.

As for results, we, the USA, are having excessive numbers of:

Coronary heart disease
Type 2 diabetes
Cancers (endometrial, breast, and colon)
Hypertension (high blood pressure)
Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
Stroke
Liver and Gallbladder disease
Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
Osteoarthritis (a degeneration of cartilage and its underlying bone within a joint)
Gynecological problems (abnormal menses, infertility)

Type II diabetes used to be called Adult Onset Diabetes. Now teens and even younger children are being diagnosed with Type II diabetes and it is direct result of overeating, in other words gluttony.

 

England, Germany, Canada are all in the same boat. However, note genetics play a role in "overweight" people as well. I think that baptist like fellowship time and often that is around a meal. I find nothing wrong with that. Especially since we work hard at feeding the world. Ask yourself which country in the world has supplied more food to the world than any other? Which country is proactive when people are starving and need help? So though there is an issue of over eating - and a more pressing problem of perservatives and chemicals and steroids in our food which add to the overweight problems - the flip side is we are the most generous with our food. During the days of the soviet union the United States almost single handedly kept the USSR fed since their five year plans kept failing.

 

I don't think that's for you to say. I really, really wish you would approach discussion with a spirit of Christian charity and an attitude of reconciliation. Your remarks are consistently divisive and incendiary.

Just promise me you'll think about it.

 

You are welcome to call it what you want. But you need to stop pretending that you are any less.