Baptist views of church-state separation

I am well aware aware of the Jefferson Bible and his different quotes on Jesus Christ. I cannot quite figure out your logic whether it be bashing the SBC or nit picking our founders. I would think you would thank God for the collection of men we had found this nation on Chrisitan-Judeo principles.

Jefferson's statements on Jesus do not appear to be a relationship of Lord and Savior. However, he does speak of Jesus and His moral impact on society. He also believed in God and a after life. Jefferson had a strong moral authority. He was a strong believer in religious freedom, and to a great extent, you can worship as you choose because of his efforts.

What is your purpose in finding one thing wrong in the collection of men that wrote the Declaration of Indpendence and Constitution. What are you trying to prove, that we were founded on an athiest agenda? The other founders certainly had strong statements of their faith in Jesus Christ.

I do not know and you do not know what was in Jefferson's heart when he died in 1826. You speak about persecution in our country today. Maybe if you had seen what Jefferson had as a represenative in colonial Virginia, you would be just as critical of the church power structure as he was. I am not going to judge any human being as far as salvation, but the man was brilliant, and we owe him a debt for the freedoms and moral compass he founded for this nation.

Just who would you rather have had in the early years of our government, Bill Clinton?, George w Bush?, or maybe Barack Obama?

Sometimes it pays to look at the big picture and how God worked through these men to found this country, and how He has blessed it since, now days, not deservingly.

Maybe if you look up enough historical records, you can find Jefferson's name on a SBC roll, then you can criticize both with one post.

 

Did Jesus ever worry about presenting his gospel in the Roman Senate? Anyone who follows Him is a Christian. Those who seem to be spreading the gospel but in reality are trying to push a political agenda are not.

 

A rather loose attempt at an example but is not actually relevant. The government was a different set up and Rome was not founded on Christian principles. Why is it liberals cannot make legitimate comparisons?

 

I have no liberal views on anything. This op is not about salvation, it is about the relationship of church to state. You have no more idea what was in Jefferson's heart than a man in the moon. And if the truth be known, you probably spent as much time studying the man as you did serving this country.

You attitude in fact weakens our Christian foundation as a country, as you want to emphasize imperfections to make it appear our nation was either founded on an unChristian basis or by atheists. So what is your purpose? It seems to have none, as does your constant berating of the SBC.

If you bothered to read my post, you would see I said Jefferson was probably not a Christian. If you bothered to read either his writings or history, you would see that the man contributed lots to the foundation of this nation, and probably gave you the freedom to express your warped views.

It is views like yours that have watered down what this country was founded on, and tried to rewrite history for secular reasons.

I said nothing about universal salvation, and do not believe anywhere close to that. The nicest thing that can be said about your posts, and I mean the nicest, is that you are theologically and historically challenged. What is amazing is the first part is your livelihood.

 

Dishonest attempts to characterize posts falsely are practiced by a few. It is clear you never said anything about universalism.

 

A government without God is an evil government. There can be no morality without God.

 

Name one godly government.

 

Name one moral government.

 

So, by extension any government that recognizes God must be good? I don't think so.

 

So, Crabby, and MP.. let me get this straight...

You would prefer to keep God out of the affairs of our Government?
Are you saying that the leaders should not ask God for wisdom and instruction to guide our nation?

Is that what you are saying? If not, that is the way it is coming across....
You should clarify.

 

A government of the people, by the people and for the people, but that's irrelevant. Despite the form of government Crabtownboy is under, he desires that it be run by good, godly and moral people.

The form of government in America was one which recognized that men at heart are evil, and given absolute power will corrupt it absolutely. Power was therefore divided, and individuals were seen as their own sovereigns.

We all view government as acting nobly or ignobly. The heart of the matter is the criteria one uses to thus judge a government.

It is beyond dispute that the principles which formed our government were Protestant Christian principles; Creationism, equality, liberty, etc. That's what is meant when folks say that America is a Christian nation. It is not confusing. It is not inappropriate. It is not wrong, and we abandon that concept at our own peril.

 

Hey! Where'd you get a close-up of Obama's cufflink?

 

If MP knew God a little better, he would have a tougher time putting the NAZI's forth as an example of a government that acknowledged God.

 

That is exactly right. The above poster that belittled Jefferson's statements on Jesus Christ and God could have no other purpose than to muddy the waters on our foundational heritage. No one ever said all of our founders were good little Baptists that agree with us A to Z. However, most were strong Christians, all believed in a Creator, and had a strong moral compass. We are forever indebted to them led by God for the Delcaration of Independence and Constitution. It is why we can post on this board today.

Whatever the flaws of the founders, I will take the least moral of them over the clowns we have guiding our nation today, the Clintons, the Bushes, and the Obamas. Congress is rotten to the core, and no one has any concept about serving the American people or governing by the Constitution. Our present day leaders are nothing but a collection of thieves.

For all the education some have on this board, there are some serious flaws in the understanding of history, government, and even Scripture at times.