Baptists and Youth

No lost person wants to become a Christian until the Father draws them. The Church most certainly can handle them with the help of the Holy Spirit. Pete Ward doesn't seem very aware of what the Bible says.

Joseph Botwinick

 

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All of this is just more of compromising the standards of the Church to win them at any cost. It is all about numbers for these hacks.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I became a Christian in an Evangelical Presbyterian Church that had about 5000 members, with about 2000 attending over 3 services on Sunday mornings.

I was 16 and the youth group was about 30-50 strong.

I did not feel like I belonged. I did not get any instruction on how to live my life. I was not warned about the dangers and pitfalls of college. No youth minister seeked me out. It was all very clique-y and upsetting to me. My source of help was the music minister, who was not a youth leader, and perhaps he saw that I had a sort of crush on him and wisely kept his distance. Teenagers are up and down kind of people. They need role models. O how I could have flown if the WOMEN of the church took even a small interest in me, a new shy immature teenage Christian!

So I went off to college and proceeded to live a life of sin. It wasn't until I was in my mid-20's that I figured out what being a follower of Christ was all about. It took me 10 years! I don't blame anyone for my sins...it was all me. But Oh how I wish I had been warned and taught! How to deny myself. What to expect from college men. How to truely live for Christ. So many basic things.

So I agree with the statement. Maybe one day I can help a teen like me.

 

Joseph, you're painting with too broad a brush.

And you're making a logical error. Just because the Bible says that the "church should be able to handle them," it doesn't mean that churches have the right attitude in this area.

I'm not defending everything that pete ward stands for...I don't know the guy. But I am leery of a viewpoint that isn't willing to admit the obvious...quite a few churches out there want their youth to act like 60 year-old mature Christians that grew up in a 1950's era church. Ain't gonna happen...no slam against 60-somethings, but our culture is different.

 

RBell,

I actually kind of agree with you a little. You will note, however, that in my original post that I made a qualification that with the help of the Holy Spirit that the Church can handle the teen Christians. In Churches where there is a lack of Biblical teaching and a self centered view of Church, you are correct, they are failing to meet the needs not only of teens, but everyone.

Joseph Botwinick

 

The problem I have with alot of these guys like Peter Ward is they come up with all these neat thoughts of what they think church ought to be and how youth work ought to be done without giving much thought to what the Scriptures say.

It might sound cool to talk about "liquid church" and the church not meeting regularly etc...
Yet in Heb. it tells us to "forsake not the assembling of ourselves together". I mean doesn't that kind of blow his whole idea of church not meeting regularly right out of the water? Last time I checked there is a precedent in scripture for the local church and corporate worship.

Personally I don't care how inovatative a dude might be in a particular ministry if he is going to play loose with scripture in one area then he will probably be more pragmatic in other areas in order to serve the pupose of his premise on a particular method of doing ministry.

That is my two cents.

 

Stay to the topic Ben, and avoid the personal attacks. There was no hint of Calvinism in Joseph's posts. You brought in with a vicious attack that was totally unwarranted. Do not reply to my post. Any other attacks will be deleted.
DHK

 

Joseph,

Though you and I would disagree on some methodology, I think we would be in agreement that many churches don't think about the long road past student ministry years...I'm even more fulfilled as a student pastor when my 28 year-old former student is living for God than when my 13 year-old junior higher is living for God...if that makes sense.

Our goal? To have them be Christ-followers...not just today, but beyond their teenage years. And yes, it takes good biblical grounding, and allowing them to be involved in ministry.

 

We might not disagree as much as you think about the methodology. We would probably disagree as to our reasoning behind what we do. For example, you say that our goal is to have them be Christ followers...and I admit that is a very tempting goal to grab onto. I, on the other hand, would probably argue that this is not the primary goal, but a natural outcome of what I believe to be our primary goals:

1. Obedience to Christ and his Word.
2. Faithfully preaching (proclaiming) the Gospel.
3. Giving Glory to God in our worship, our lives, and our testimony / witness.

I think these are the primary goals or desires of all true Christians, and the salvation of the lost is the natural outcome through the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Joseph Botwinick