Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Mar 17, 2010.
In another post, Lori, a Roman Catholic has informed us that Baptists are Protestants.
What say you?
I really don't care... I am serving Christ, and am a Baptist because I feel they line up closer to the Bible...
I wasn't old enough to protest during the reformation... are you Salty?
I think she said that Baptists WERE Protestants.
Not sure what a Catholic is trying to say with that assertion, but it is true that we are not direct descendants of the classic Reformation churches ... Lutheran or Reformed. However, the Anabaptist movement grew up alongside those churches, and, since our origins are in English separatism, that seems clearly to classify us as a "protest" or "pro-testifier" over against the Church of England's semi-Protestantism.
But hey, if we need a label other than Baptist, evangelical works well, except when it is sullied by meaning "fundamentalist"
Right you are Ann,
I just edited my post # 1, so now it reads correctly
No, Baptists are not part of the historic Protestant churches such as Lutheran and Presbyterian.
I never call myself a Protestant.
Of course Baptists are Protestant...we protest everything!
Actually I would suggest in the categorization of religion Baptists, having arisen out of English Separatism which came from, long story short, Protestants.
Neither do I.
Jim1999 has said more than once that there were Baptists in Wales prior to the Reformation. This is from January 2010
I think Spurgeon also contended that Baptists followed an unbroken line (though not by that name) from the beginning.
Many do not know of the historic meaning behind this term.
For most people today.... The Christian community is either protestant or Roman Catholic.... or Catholic (to include Greek Othodox).
Thus it becomes a broad and generalized catagory of 'Christianity's divisions.
Some who don't recongize the cult of the LDS or others, like SDA, also include these in this broad category.
Personally I choose to identify as Christian by faith and Baptist by practice.
How about the president of the Counsel of Trent:
“Were it not for the fact that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1200 years, they would swarm greater than all the reformers."
I usually refer to myself as a christian, a child of God, or an evangelical.
I almost never refer to myself as a baptist or a protestant.
But if someone DOES call me a protestant, thats fine. I really dont care about things like that.
That's referring to the Anabaptists, who are the ancestors of today's Mennonites and Amish. Baptists like us didn't come along until later. So, yes, I'm a Protestant and proud of it.
EDIT: That says 1200 years, so it's not just the Anabaptists, but it still isn't talking about today's Baptists, which are not connected to those other groups.
This quote, which comes from that book of pulp fiction "Trail of Blood", has long since been discredited.
... most of us are "protesting" the health-care reform and the way it may be voted [or, not???] on.
Like Tiny Tim said, it doesn't matter what they call me, as long as it ain't "late" for dinner - at the Lord's Big Table in Heaven, that is!.:thumbs:
Pastor Paul :type:
This is a debate forum, not an "it doesn't make any difference" forum.
So let's debate the question.
Oops, sorry, "it doesn't make any difference" is one of the options in the poll.
(pointing finger at screen) It depends on what the definition of protestant is.
No, what have been discredited are the false charges of gross lies, bogus, ahistorical, fraudulent, a hoax, etc., and now fiction that a moderator and other posters here have erroneously made in regard to the quote from Cardinal Hosius.
Here are Stanislaus Hosius's words from the 1565 English translation of his 1559 work De origine haeresium nostri temporis, available at the Digital Library of the Catholic Reformation:
"For if so be, that as every is moste redy to suffer deathe for the faythe of his sect, so his faythe sholde be judged moste perfect and most sure, there shall be no faythe more certayne and true, then is the Anabaptistes, seying there be none now, or have bene before time for the space of these thousand and to hundred yeares, who have bene more cruelly punyshed, or that have more stoutely, stedfastly, cherefully taken theire punishment, yea or have offered them selves of their owne accorde to death, were it never so terrible and grevouse. Yea in Saint Augustyn his time, as he hym selffe sayeth, there was a certaine monstrouse desire of deathe in them. ... Nether was there such folyshe hardy heretkes in Sainst Augustine his tyme only. For foure hundred years agone, at what time S. Bernard lyved, there were Anabaptistes, which were no lesse prodigal to spend their lyfe, then were the Donatists, some (saythe he) did mervayle that they were led to theire deathe not only paciently but as it semed very frolyke and merye.
...If you beholde their cherefullnes in suffring persecutions, the Anabaptists run farr before all other heretykes. If you will have regarde to the number, it is like that in multitude they would swarm above al other, if they were not grevously plaged and cut off with the knyfe of persecution. If you have an eye to the outewarde appearaunce of godlynes, bothe the Lutherans and the Zuinglians muste nedes graunte, that they farr passe them.
...And surely howe many so euer haue wrytten agaynst this heresie, whether they were Catholykes or Heretykes, they were able to overthrowe it not so muche by the testimony of the scriptures, as by the authoritie of the Churche."
This is insulting to my grandfather, a first generation fundamentalist (born 1896) and a Baptist preacher for 60 years or so. His tract has been translated into dozens of languages and used of God to bring tens of thousands to Christ all over the world.
Your statement is also insulting to my father, a fundamentalist who preached the Gospel and pastored Baptist churches for 60 years, seeing many come to Christ through his ministry. When he went into the hospital for the last time, ravaged by Alzheimer's, and my mother asked him what to put for religion, he said, "I don't have a religion, I have a Savior."
The idea that being called a fundamentalist "sullies" the name of evangelicalism is also insulting to me. I've preached the Gospel for 40 years as a Baptist preacher, and been a missionary of the cross to Japan since 1981.
I hope you'll reconsider your ill-advised and offensive statement. Just because the term fundamentalist has been terribly abused by the secular press doesn't mean it is a bad term, nor does it mean that we who still claim the term are anything whatsoever like the so-called "Islamic fundamentalists" the secular press likes to talk about.
I agree with what you say, however there are those in Christian (not secular) circles who claim to be "fundamentalists", yet they have redefined the term to mean "women not wearing pants, using a specific Bible translation, not using certain types of Christian music or musical instruments, only Baptists can be true fundamentalists" and etc.- and we know that those were NOT the things that the first generation Fundamentalists were fighting for. They have sullied the good name of "Fundamentalism", IMHO.
I am also of the personal opinion that if your grandfather were to come back today he would probably be appalled at what much of mainstream Baptist Fundamentalism has become- separated by differences in personalities and ideologies rather than separated from theological heresy. But you were very close to him so perhaps you have a different opinion.
Praying for you!
Thanks, Jim. I appreciate you.
If Grandad came back today, I agree, there are factions of fundamentalism he'd still oppose--the same Ruckmanism he was opposed to when he was alive, the burgeoning radical Calvinists within the IFB movement who oppose soul-winning and what they call "revivalism," and the radical secondary separationists who make everyone into an enemy who is not fundamentalist by their definition.
And he'd still preach from Psalm 119:160, "I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts," just like he always did.