Baptists Were Influenced By The C.o.E.

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Rippon, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Most of us have heard about George Whitefield lamenting that his chicks had become ducks . Of course he was referring to many of his converts becoming Baptists . In America ( because old George got around to other places as well ) , most of those coming to a saving knowlege of Jesus Christ were , or became Baptists . Daniel Marshall (1768-1837) and Shubal Sterns (1706-1771) wwere among the more notable ones .

    In the UK some Anglicans such as John Newton and Henry Venn extended the hand of fellowship to Baptists . In my bio of Newton , (written by Richard Cecil and updated by Marylynn Rousse) , it says the following on page 262 : Cowper and Newton attended the Baptist Association meetings in Olney in 1768 , hearing Booth preach from Acts 11:26 . Abraham Booth (1734-1806) ,was a prominent Baptist preacher at that time . He was quite learned -- kind of like his generation's John Gill without any of the negative luggage Gill's critics bestowed upon him . Henry Venn wrote the preface to Booth's sermons .

    On page 287 it speaks of John Fawcett (1740-1817) . He was converted under Whitefield's preaching and " shaped as a young Christian by William Grimshaw ( he walked the nine miles to Haworth on Communion Sundays ) ... "

    On page 294 Fawcett's biographer is quoted : " The erection of a [ Baptist ] place of worship at Wainsgate must be imputed to the Rev. Mr. Grimshaw of Haworth ... Mr. Richard Smith , who was its first pastor , attended Mr. Grimshaw's ministry , and and derived great advantage from it . "

    On page 317 it refers to John Oulton (1738-1780) . He was a Particular Baptist minister in Liverpool . Newton attended his services at Byrom Street and took part in his mid-week meetings .

    Both John Ryland Sr. (1723-1792) and his son John Ryland Jr. (1753-1825) were friends of Newton's .

    I find it comforting that some Church of England ministers at that time had fellowship with some Baptists . There were glaring differences between the two sects but the common bond between the truly regenerate of both parties joined them together as it is biblical to do .

    Today with the ever increasing liberalism of the Anglician Church it makes it even more difficult . Come out from among them is my plea . But still there are very godly men in that group who preach and teach in a very biblical manner despite everything else .
     
  2. Rippon

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    I have a good bio of James Hervey (1714-1758) by George M. Ella . It is called Preacher of Righteousness .Ella says that Hervey and John Ryland Sr. (1723-1792) were very close friends . The following is from page 242 .

    The Anglican was especially open to evangelical Baptists and could not tolerate bigotry on baptismal matters on either side . Usually he had a Baptist to dinner one day and an Anglican the next . Sometimes when he invited both parties at once , difficulties , not of hismaking , would arise . Once when he had invited ministers of various denominations to share dinner with him together , he was shocked to hear a ministerial friend , a Mr. H. launch into a sharp attack against a Baptist Mr. S. present . The offender , probably Hartley , who was staying with Hervey at the time , had not reckoned with his host . Hervey told John Ryland how he reated , ' I thought it a breach of delicacy and propriety of conduct , especially to do this with my guest , and at my table ; therefore I took up the cudgels , and personated a Baptist .' Hervey was very critical of the prayer Book concernig baptism and the visitation of the sick and campaigned for a reform in the language and theology . Of this effort he wrote , ' In an affair of the highest consequence , how negligent is the community , I mean in the long expected reformation of the liturgy , in which , excellent as it is upon the whole , there are some passages so justly exceptionable , that every bishop in the kingdom will tell you he wishes to have them expunged ; and yet , I know not for what political or timid reasons , it continues just as it did . Had our first reformers been thus indolent , we still had been Papists .' Hervey's defence of the Baptist position did not go unheeded by his congregation ... When John Newton visited Weston-Favell a few years later to preach , he found no evangelicals [ he must mean Anglicans -- Rip ] in Hervey's church -- they had all left and become Baptists !
     
  3. rsr

    rsr
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    He indeed meant evangelicals.

    The Evangelical Revival began in the Church of England, though many of its proponents eventually left the church. John Wesley never officially broke with the CoE, though he did ordain ministers when the CoE refused to do so and he is buried at City Road Chapel, which he founded. Charles Wesley remained an Anglican to the end and was buried, against his brother's wishes, in the parish cemetery, saying "I have lived, and I die, in the Communion of the Church of England, and I will be buried in the yard of my parish church."

    Whitefield also was ordained in the CoE, though he found Presbyeterian churches more amenable to his message in America. He is buried under the pulpit of a Presbyeterian church in Massachusetts that was built for his use.
     
  4. El_Guero

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    Come out from among them and what?

    They need to stay and lead their people to repentance. There is no reason why I would want someone of a different denom to 'pretend' to be Baptistic.

    IMHO

     
  5. Kiffen

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    I think from the very beginning Particular Baptists were influenced by Church of England theology since Baptists like Presbyterians and Congregationalists were all separatists from it. The soterology of the English Separatists mirrors the Calvinistic type theology of the 39 articles of Religion of the Church of England though I think it can be argued that the ecclesiology shows a influence (either directly or indirectly) from the Anabaptist movement.
     
  6. NateT

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    I believe Dr. Michael Haykin would argue that not only were they influenced by CoE, but that Baptists essentially came from the CoE. As Kiffin said, they were separatists like the Presbyterrians and Congregationalists.
     

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