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BASIC FACTS TO KNOW ABOUT VACCINATIONS

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Oct 5, 2005.

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  1. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Oh, the feeling of power you must get from childish remarks like this. :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]I guess I may be stupid, but, what is a "mindgaurd" (sic)? :confused:
     
    #21 Phillip, Oct 7, 2005
  2. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    The drug companies may make money on other medications, but not the flu vaccine. They are break-even at best.

    Why did you say "genocide" is a reason for not taking the vaccine?
     
    #22 Phillip, Oct 7, 2005
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Oh, the feeling of power you must get from childish remarks like this. :rolleyes: </font>[/QUOTE]I guess I may be stupid, but, what is a "mindgaurd" (sic)? :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]
    SOURCE
     
    #23 poncho, Oct 7, 2005
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    NEW WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION CHIEF INVOLVED IN POPULATION CONTROL VACCINE SCANDAL
    GENEVA, January 30, 2003 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Dr. Jong Wook Lee, a relatively unknown World Health Organization (WHO) insider beat out high profile competitors to become the head of the World Health Organization Tuesday. Other candidates for the post included Dr. Julio Frenk Mora - currently Mexico's Minister of Health and Dr. Pascoal Mocumbi - the Prime Minister of Mozambique.

    However, Lee's work with WHO included being in charge of and weathering one of the most scandalous accusations to be brought against the organization. Lee, a vaccine expert was in 1994 placed in charge of the WHO Global Programme for Vaccines and Immunizations. In 1995 the BBC aired an investigative documentary verified by the Philippine Department of Health and the Philippine Medical Association that tetanus vaccines from the WHO were combined with a chemical known as beta Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin, an anti-pregnancy agent.

    The BBC Horizon program entitled "The Human Laboratory", which was never aired in the United States, noted that Philippino women of child-bearing age were administered the tainted vaccine and many miscarriages ensued. Dr. Reynaldo Echavez of the Philippine Medical Association stated that the presence of the HCG in the tetanus shot would cause the women to develop HCG antibodies, which will then cause spontaneous abortion if the women become pregnant.

    WHO denied the accusation and claimed to have found negligible amounts of HCG 'independent' in the vaccines. However, the BBC report said that "There are several research programmes around the world testing the contraceptive vaccine linked to tetanus, which creates an immune response." Moreover pro-life leaders in the Philippines were alerted that a similar program of surreptitiously sterilizing tetanus vaccines had been perpetrated in Mexico.

    SOURCE

    During the early 1990s, the World Health Organization (WHO) had been overseeing massive vaccination campaigns against tetanus in a number of countries, among them Nicaragua, Mexico, and the Philippines. In October 1994, HLI received a communication from its Mexican affiliate, the Comite' Pro Vida de Mexico, regarding that country's anti-tetanus campaign. Suspicious of the campaign protocols, the Comite' obtained several vials of the vaccine and had them analyzed by chemists. Some of the vials were found to contain human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), a naturally occurring hormone essential for maintaining a pregnancy.

    SOURCE
     
    #24 poncho, Oct 7, 2005
  5. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Not taking the flu shot is likewise playing Russian roulette. I have an aunt who had to be hospitalized two winters ago after getting the flu. She admittedly never made the time to get a flu shot, though she had in previous years.

    Don't get me wrong, you're welcome to not get a flu shot. I don't always, though as I get older, I should. But to play holier-than-thou because you don't, there's a word in scriptre for that, and it start with P, ends in E and rhymes with erasee.

    As for your comment about "billions of dollars" for drug companies, I guess you're not aware that the cost of treating flu cases every year is also in the billions of dollars, not including the tens of millions of dollars lost in sick time.
     
    #25 Johnv, Oct 7, 2005
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I was just reading a JAMA article on this. I believe the number of auto deaths in 2004 was about 43,000, while the number of deaths from childhood immunizations was something like 20.
     
    #26 Johnv, Oct 7, 2005
  7. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Easily resolved. Ask them to read the label and accompanying documentation to you and explain any confusing terms. Or you could read it yourself. Reading is useful for this sort of thing. </font>[/QUOTE]
    Not so easily resolved if you are forced against your will to get vaccinated, or told that it is "the law" when no such laws mandating vaccinations exist.

    http://thinktwice.com/laws.htm
     
    #27 poncho, Oct 7, 2005
  8. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I was just reading a JAMA article on this. I believe the number of auto deaths in 2004 was about 43,000, while the number of deaths from childhood immunizations was something like 20. </font>[/QUOTE]
    SOURCE
     
    #28 poncho, Oct 7, 2005
  9. prophecynut

    prophecynut New Member

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    4. Since July 1990, 17,497 cases of hospitalizations, injuries and deaths in America following hepatitis B vaccination have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) of the U.S. government. This figure includes 146 deaths in individuals after receiving only hepatitis B vaccine without any other vaccines, including 73 deaths in children under 14 years old.

    In 1996 alone there were 872 serious adverse events in children under 14 years old reported to VAERS. 658 of those injuries were following hepatitis B vaccination in combination with other vaccinations and 214 of these injuries were after hepatitis B vaccination alone. In these children under 14 years old, there were 35 deaths after hepatitis B vaccination in combination and 13 deaths after hepatitis B vaccination alone, for a total of 48 deaths. Compare these statistics with the total number of hepatitis B cases nationwide reported that same year (1996) in children under 14, just 279, and the conclusion is obvious that the risks of hepatitis B vaccination far outweigh its benefits.

    In those infants who died under one month of age, most of the deaths are classified as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS). However, in the past this syndrome has never struck infants so young, and SIDS is officially defined as beginning only after one month of age.

    With 6,000 children dying of SIDS every year, we have no idea how many of these deaths are actually caused by hepatitis B vaccination. Though the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting system was created by federal law to permit a more accurate assessment of the risks of vaccination, and although the raw data it generates is analyzed, the individual reports of injury or death are rarely, if ever, investigated. If one factors in that fewer than 10% of physicians report adverse reactions to vaccines because we are taught to regard them as merely "temporally related", as only a coincidence, it would be quite plausible to say that the risks of hepatitis B vaccination clearly outweigh its benefits for 99% of the children who receive it.

    http://www.whale.to/m/incao.html

    5. The best way to determine the risk-benefit profile of any vaccination is well known and in theory is quite simple: Take a group of vaccinated children and compare them with a matched group of unvaccinated children. If the groups are well-matched and large enough and the length of time the children are observed following vaccination long enough, then such a study is deemed the "gold standard" of vaccine research because its data is as accurate a reflection as medical research is capable of achieving of how vaccinations are actually affecting our nation’s children.

    Incredible as it sounds, such a common-sense controlled study comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated children has never been done in America for any vaccination.
     
    #29 prophecynut, Oct 7, 2005
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Time Almanac 2003 (Time, 2002), page 552:

    "Hepatitis B: Approximately 2 billion people
    are infected with the hepatitis B virus (HBV), making
    it the most common infectious disease in the world today.
    Over 350 million of those infected never rid themselves of
    the infection. ... Chronic infections can cause cirrhosis
    of the liver or liver cancer in later years."

    My first wife dead of liver cancer trumps your undocumented
    dead children from the vaccine.

    On that same page 552 is the 10 leading causes of death
    in the world. Road traffic accidents is #10 causing 2.4% of
    all deaths in the world. Childhood vaccines saves lives
    so is not listed as one of the top ten causes of death in
    the world.
     
    #30 Ed Edwards, Oct 7, 2005
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Reasons why I generally ignore vaccination nonsense on-line.

    1. Anti-vaccination attacks tend
    to denigerate the board on which they appear. The anti-vaccine
    attack is stored in my data base right after 'urban legends'
    and right in 'Conspiracy Theorys'. People know this and tend
    to think the rest of the board is 'wierd' also.

    2. The total black/white anti-vaccination ramblings
    tend to be noticably TOTALY BLACK in a very light gray area.
    The say all vaccines are bad (but in reality only some have bad stuff
    in them; but in reality it is a very small amount of bad
    stuff compared to a lot of good stuff).

    3. Small Pox was virtually eleminated in all the world save one state
    in Northern Nigeria. They figured out that that 'Great Satan' the
    USofA had ulterior motives for giving out free anti-small-pox vaccine.
    They have sacrificed about 800 of their children to their faulty
    conspiracy theory.

    4. The sources cited (if any) are more like
    cult conspiracy theory advocates than
    any reasonable/logical party :(

    Gold Dragon: //Actually caring about folks would involve providing information about
    the pros of vaccinations and honest evaluations of their risk
    and not just a whole lot of exaggerated and misleading con
    to scare them from something that may be truly beneficial.//

    Amen, Brother Gold dragon -- Preach it!
     
    #31 Ed Edwards, Oct 7, 2005
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Thank you for your addition to my irrational
    conspiracy site pointers. Unfortunately nothing you
    said in your post referencing it
    makes any sense :(
     
    #32 Ed Edwards, Oct 7, 2005
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    oops, second post???
     
    #33 Ed Edwards, Oct 7, 2005
  14. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you can answer a couple simple questions then Ed, such as...

    1.) Why would so many highly respected scientists, researchers and physicians go to such great lengths to concoct bogus studies and issue false reports, in essence putting their professional reputations on the line, if their was no connection? (A) I want these officials to do two things. First I want them to give me one good reason why these professionals would make this up, and two , (B) I want them to give me one logical alternative theory for the current epidemic of disorders.
    Lets look at a few of these experts.

    Dr. Jeffrey Bradstreet, is a practicing physician who treats children with autism and other brain-damage disorders. While in the Air Force, he was trained in toxicology and environmental health. His duties as an officer included the responsibility for military personnel who had exposure to a wide variety of toxins, including mercury.

    Dr. Bradstreet has evaluated well over 2,000 children with neurological disorders. He also directs a school for children with neurodevelopmental disorders where his responsibilities include supervising occupational therapists, speech and language pathologists, and applied behavioral analysts.

    Dr. Bradstreet is a Harvard Certified Medical Education Instructor in autism and has written three peer reviewed papers regarding the relationship of thimerosal, developmental disorders and biological markers for mercury-susceptibility.

    In addition, he has conducted research regarding these disorders and has worked with some of the most highly respected professionals in the country, including Dr. Jane El-Dahr of the Tulane University Medical Center; Dr. V.K. Singh of the Utah State University Biotechnology Center; the University of Michigan Department of Pharmacology; Dr. Vas Aposhian of the University of Arizona; Dr. Anne Connolly of the Washington University Hospital; Dr. Walter Spitzer of McGill University; the Department of Pediatrics at Robert Wood Johnson Medical School; Dr. Jim Adams of the University of Arizona; and Dr. Jill James, a former FDA researcher, now with the University of Arkansas, Department of Pediatrics.

    Apparently the FDA, CDC, and vaccine makers expect us to believe that this long line of highly respected professionals from universities all over the country somehow got together and conspired to conduct fraudulent research for decades and then authored thousands of false reports and other papers.

    I do not buy it. 2.) What would be the payoff?

    Dr. Mark Geier is a medical doctor who holds a Ph.D in genetics and is board-certified in medical genetics and forensic medicine. He was a researcher at the National Institutes of Health for 10 years and was previously a professor at Johns Hopkins University. He has studied vaccines for more than 30 years and has published over 50 peer-reviewed papers on vaccine safety, efficacy, contamination and policy.

    He was instrumental in convincing officials to switch from the whole-cell Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis (DTP) vaccine to the safer version (DTaP). In fact, he wrote the article, The True Story of Pertussis Vaccination: A Sordid Legacy which, in 2002, won the first annual Stanley W. Jackson award for the best paper published in the Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences during the period of 2000 to 2002.

    Dr. Geier has made several presentations to the Institute of Medicine on the adverse effects of vaccines including one on thimerosal in 2004. He and his son, David Geier, are the only independent researchers who have ever been permitted to study the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) database of the CDC.

    SOURCE
     
    #34 poncho, Oct 8, 2005
  15. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    Amen
     
    #35 hillclimber, Oct 8, 2005
  16. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Amen </font>[/QUOTE]Guess you skipped over my reply.

    Here it is...
    Johnv was apparently making an issue where none was meant to exist. This thread isn't about "religious exemptions" or scriptural support to except or not except vaccinations it's about the dangers of vaccines. There are thousands of reports by highly qualified individuals that have studied them for a good many years that believe they are dangerous. But those with conflicts and vested interests in the production and sale of vaccines tell us these highly qualified researchers are "conspiracy theorists".

    Who do we believe? Why, the people that stand to make the most money from them of course. The Drug Lobby for one and the UN World Health Organization and the CDC that has helped to institute a world wide "population control" program.
     
    #36 poncho, Oct 8, 2005
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Actually you are asking lawyer questions-
    questions which have no answer
    (I hate it when a judge asks me to answer
    such a questiond 'yes' or 'no'.

    Bad question :(

    I know of no medical field leaders who
    "concoct bogus studies and issue false reports".
    The evidence against the unconviced ones is
    minimal and i haven't found the evidence
    against the conviced ones.

    There is no "current epidemic of disorders"
    for which there is a necessary "logical
    alternative theory".

    ...

    This conspiracy theory site
    is one the same order as:

    http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/

    which is a registered source of fiction [​IMG]

    JohnV: //Someone's been watching too many Gary Trudeau infomercials.//

    Amen, Brother JohnV -- Preach it! [​IMG]
     
    #37 Ed Edwards, Oct 8, 2005
  18. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Gold Dragon: //Actually caring about folks would involve providing information about
    the pros of vaccinations and honest evaluations of their risk
    and not just a whole lot of exaggerated and misleading con
    to scare them from something that may be truly beneficial.//

    Amen, Brother Gold dragon -- Preach it!

    He can "preach" all he wants but he still hasn't answered these questions Ed.

    1.) Why do you feel they are exaggerated and misleading cons?

    2.) Do you really expect to get an honest evaluation from the institutions that have a direct vested interest in the production and sale of vaccines?

    3.) Have you read the United Nations thoughts on population control? Henry Kissenger. National Security Study Memorandum 200 I believe it is.
     
    #38 poncho, Oct 8, 2005
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Actually you are asking lawyer questions-
    questions which have no answer
    (I hate it when a judge asks me to answer
    such a questiond 'yes' or 'no'.

    Bad question :(

    I know of no medical field leaders who
    "concoct bogus studies and issue false reports".
    The evidence against the unconviced ones is
    minimal and i haven't found the evidence
    against the conviced ones.

    There is no "current epidemic of disorders"
    for which there is a necessary "logical
    alternative theory".

    ...

    This conspiracy theory site
    is one the same order as:

    http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/

    which is a registered source of fiction [​IMG]

    JohnV: //Someone's been watching too many Gary Trudeau infomercials.//

    Amen, Brother JohnV -- Preach it! [​IMG]     </font>[/QUOTE]Sounds like evasions to me.
     
    #39 poncho, Oct 8, 2005
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Poncho: //There are thousands of reports by highly qualified individuals that have studied them for a good many years that believe they are dangerous.//

    Where are the cost/benefit studies?

    Assigning false motives is un-Christian.
    In fact, the assigning of motives usually
    reveals more about the assignee than the
    one against who the charges are made :(
     
    #40 Ed Edwards, Oct 8, 2005
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