Be consistent

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ps104_33, Oct 16, 2001.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    Why do schools such as BJU and others tear apart the KJV but insist on using only the KJV in their pulpits? Why not let people preach from others versions if they want to?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
    Why do schools such as BJU and others tear apart the KJV but insist on using only the KJV in their pulpits? Why not let people preach from others versions if they want to?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You have a distorted view of what BJU and others do. I have never heard anyone tear apart the KJV there or any other similar school.

    Please make your arguments according to the facts and not what you wish them to be.
     
  3. Phillip

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:


    You have a distorted view of what BJU and others do. I have never heard anyone tear apart the KJV there or any other similar school.

    Please make your arguments according to the facts and not what you wish them to be.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Pastor Larry-- I have to ask such a dumb question, but what school exactly is BJU and what Baptist group (if any) do they belong to, or what church do they relate with? Also, where is it located?

    I am a SB (I'm ducking just in case) and really don't know. I'm just curious. I agree with you, I cannot imagine any college shredding the KJV and then having pastors use it. It doesn't make sense.

    [ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Phillip ]
     
  4. Chris Temple

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    Phillip:

    (If I may but in ) BJU is Bob Jones University, who has "heretically" :rolleyes: stated that the KJV is not perfect, yet they recommend it as a good translation.

    I guess that qualifies as "tearing up" teh KJV, don't you? :eek:
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Bob Jones University is a private liberal arts college with 5000+ students at last check I think. They are located in Greenville, SC. It was started by Bob Jones Sr (an Methodist evangelist) in the early part of the century because of his concern when he saw Christian young people losing their faith in secular education. There is a long history that is worth a read. (see Standing Without Apology by Daniel Turner (PhD dissertation turned into a book; Builder of Bridges, R. K. Johnson -- long time business manager I think; Island in the Lake of Fire Dalton I think is the guy's name -- it was a PhD dissertation for UGa from an outsider's POV).

    Though started by a methodist, it is predominantly supported by Baptist and baptistic churches, some presbyterians and a few others. They have claimed to be an independent fundamental baptist institution, and that is certainly their predominant leaning.

    Chris is right on his comments. They have for years held the KJV as the official public version but use the eclectic text in their Greek classes. Only the KJV made be used publically in chapel or in class, at least as the predominant version. Other versions may be referred to. They have never torn apart the KJV. Such a claim is ludicrous. Jones Jr. always said that it just didn't seem like the Bible if it didn't read with a lisp.

    Check out Bob Jones University
     
  6. Ps104_33

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    Pasror Larry,
    Apparently you never sat through one of Steware Custer's classes
     
  7. Chris Temple

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    BJU is also the publisher of some of the finest homeschool text books available.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
    Pasror Larry,
    Apparently you never sat through one of Steware Custer's classes
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually his name is Stewart and I sat through several. In everyone without exception he read from and used the KJV and never once derided it. Everytime I heard him preach it was from the KJV and he never derided it.

    [ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  9. Phillip

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    Pastor Larry and Chris;
    Thank you both for the information regarding the school. This was an interesting thread and I was just curious to know who sponsored the school and their major beliefs.

    PS104_33;

    I do not know Dr. or Mr. Custer (I'm assuming probably (Dr.), so this next statement has absolutely nothing to do with either his lectures or beliefs.

    I think that certain blanket statements should be made carefully about a school in general because, just like a church, it is made up of human beings and we humans are far from perfect, no matter how hard we try to reach spiritual growth like Jesus. Therefore, a few professors may not necessarily provide a good representation of the overall school beliefs and creeds.

    Could it be possible that you have actually heard certain remarks made, but they were only representative of a few individuals? I am not sure this provides a true reflection of the entire school. Also, (just curious) what is your definition of "tearing apart" the KJV? Could it be that they are simply in such a deep study of individual verses or chapters that it only appears that it is being torn apart because the interpretations are different from what you expected?

    I am not arguing with your judgment, simply trying to understand your specific complaints and their causal factors.

    Have a good day and God bless!
     
  10. Forever settled in heaven

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    Ps104 seems to imply that Custer tears apart the KJB n to have a deeper knowledge of Custer's classes than others, which the devt of this thread has shown otherwise.

    apparently, it's more important to be honest than "consistent."

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
    Pasror Larry,
    Apparently you never sat through one of Steware Custer's classes
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  11. DocCas

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ps104_33:
    Apparently you never sat through one of Stewar(t) Custer's classes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ps104_33, let me ask you a question. Have you ever sat through one of Stewart Custer's classes? If so, what did he say that caused you to understand he was "tearing down" the KJV? If not, where did you get the information he was "tearing down" the KJV?

    I disagree with Stewart Custer on the issue of which Greek text is superior. It is the position of Stewart Custer, and BJU, that the Critical Text (Alexandrian textform) is superior to the Traditional Text (Byzantine textform). I disagree. I believe Dr. Custer is the product of his education, being educated by Dr. (uh, I am having a senior moment. He was educated at Princeton under B.B. Warfield). B.B. Warfield, while being a champion of the "fundamentals" at Princeton, also championed the critical text over the traditional text. Dr. Custer, and now his students, are all products of Princeton's position on the Greek text issue.

    I believe it is inconsistant to champion the critical text and not use the English bibles translated from the critical text. It is equally inconsistant to champion the KJV but disparage the Greek texts the KJV is translated from. [​IMG]
     
  12. Mikayehu

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    I just wanted to echo a few of the things that have already been stated. Ps104_33, I am curious if you have ever taken one of Dr. Custer's classes, or have even listened to one of them. I have taken a number of classes from him and have yet to hear him say anything that could be classified as demeaning the KJV, while I have heard him praise the translation on numerous occasions. He is one of the most humble and gentle, yet firm, men I have ever had the privilege of meeting. He is, to put it bluntly, brilliant; yet he is a servant's servant.

    As far as the objections of inconsistency go, I guess I see no real problem. If an institution believes the critical text to be superior to the TR, that alone would not seem to merit their using a modern version. No one denies that the KJV is an excellent translation, and as most students who attend BJU were raised on the KJV, it makes sense to use it. Secondly, the whole KJVO debate has shown how much of a "hot-button" issue it is. If the KJV is such a great translation (which it is) why not use the KJV to avoid needlessly offending someone? Within that framework of using the KJV for the sake of uniformity, there is an education that goes on at BJU. Students are taught that no translation is perfect, so there is benefit to be found in other conservative translations. That is exactly what Spurgeon did with his congregation over a 100 years ago. I see nothing inconsistent with what Spurgeon did, or with what BJU does on this issue.
     
  13. HankD

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    &gt;&gt;If the KJV is such a great translation (which it is) why not use the KJV to avoid needlessly offending someone?&gt;&gt;

    Yes, and then modernize it where it needs it.
    Several months ago, I posted a site where Dr. Peter Ruckman did exactly that and his translation of the passage in question looked very much like an MV passage (NAS I believe).

    HankD
     

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