Be Fruitfull and Multiply

Well you asked why they were outbreeding us. Multiple wives = multiple children!

Donna, I'm wondering if you have a skewed idea of how things work in a large family. I have only 3 1/2 children most days. (my son's best friend, Cade, who is here all the time is the 1/2 child ) Other days I might 6 or 7 depending on which kid has how so many friends over. And let me just tell you, I do expect the older kids to help look after the younger ones!

Even when it is just my 3 I expect my kids to all sorts of stuff. Jenna(10) cleans the bathrooms. Chris(13) picks up the central living areas and vacuums and Cass (15) cleans the kitchen.

Chris also mows the grass and is learning to weedeat and helps out with the cooking (all things he enjoys doing btw!)

Cass also cooks, mops floors and does all her own laundry and sometimes some of the household laundry.

Jenna is learning to help out with the cooking, can change bedsheets with the best of us and helps Cass out in the kitchen by unloading the dishwasher. Her chores will increase now that she's gotten older.

Cade, who is not even my own, throws in and helps with whatever needs doing when he is here! Other kids when they come learn quickly and I haven't had a parent to complain yet! They want their kids to know these things but think they don't have the time or talent to teach them!

Everyone helps out with animal care (animal count right now stands 8, less than it used to be).

Yes, I expected my older ones to help out with the younger ones to a certain extent. I also expect my younger ones to help out with the older ones. Sometimes I expect my kids to help out with TLB's kids and I don't even pay them! It's good experience. One day they are going have children of their own and I want them to know what to do!

(for those of you who don't know already, TLB and I are cousins)

At about 10 I expect my kids to start learning how to be adults and they can't do that without practice!

There is also the whole "idle hands are the devil's playground" theory that I buy into completely because I've seen it worked out so many time with my children's schoolmates who aren't expected to do anything toward their own upkeep and are allowed to fly hither and yon at their own whim. Some of those children have children of their own now and they are only 15 or 16!!

I'm going to do my best to see that doesn't happen with my kids and/or their friends.

None of this is any different than what I've seen of larger families and I know more than just TLB's. I come from a long line of large families. Yes, there were a few mother who were just lazy or crazy and expected the kids to do everything(my own included and she only had 2 of us!) But that wasn't the norm.

 

Is it a reality to say baptists that it takes an average of 40 baptist to reach one? How does anyone measure that? And what do you mean by "reach"? Tell them the good news of Jesus Christ? But one baptist can tell the good news to hundreds, thousands, even tens of thousands with such things as radio and the internet. Or did you mean that for every 40 existing baptists, one person is converted? In that case, it is surely important to remember that none of us mere human beings can convert a sinner. Spreading the gospel is our work, but actually turning unbelievers into Christians is God's.

The reality is stated by Jesus so clearly in John 6.37, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me." To save any misunderstanding, I stress that I am not saying that is an excuse for Christians to be lazy in evangelism.

You said that "having Christian parents most certainly increases the chance that the kids will be Christian." But becoming a Christian, being born again, is not a matter of chance. Look at some of the examples in the bible: Who would have thought that the thief on the cross beside Jesus had any chance of becoming a Christian? Yet he did! Same with Saul on the Damascus road, breathing out threats and murder against Christians. No one in hell will be able to say to God, "It's Your fault I am here; You didn't give me Christian parents!"

 

Can I just repeat this:

Suggesting that we Christian's should get on with breeding more children in the expectation that those children will eventually become Christians themselves is unrealistic and misguided.

 

Too late! I've had three already!

But, I had my children with the full knowledge that I wasn't and couldn't guarentee their salvation. All I could do was raise them faithfully, teach them the Word and let God bring the increase.

Yes, I have been rewarded for my efforts in that I've seen three of mine saved and baptised. I haven't been rewarded by seeing Cade saved and baptised but I plant the Word as much as I can when he is here. I trust God to do what is right in Cade's life.

I have also seen Christian friends/family who haven't seen their children saved in spite of raising them in church. Do you think they prayed less for their children or really just didn't raise them right? I don't believe we can make that judgement. Having Christian parents is no guarentee of salvation!

 

How true. Yet, the Bible says if we train up a child in the way he should go, when he is old, he will not depart from it.

 

I've heard from many people who grew up in large families. The older ones had to literally raise the younger ones, change diapers, make bottles and feed, even put food on their plates, not to mention sweep or mop (usually 2 older ones share this chore), 8, 10, 12 yr olds(and I've heard of 5, 6 yr olds also) having to live like adults, with very little time for being a kid, no play time at all. They themsleves go from diapers to adults. It isn't unusual for a 10 yr old to be raising 4 or 5, 6 children, almost on their own, and I say almost because there are adults who cook, and drive. Where is mom? She isn't taking care of the younger or older children, she's just busy having more babies for the older kids to take care of. I have heard ths same story from many people, since large familes were very popular here. Both my grandmothers came from large families, one had a larege family herself, my husband came from a lareg family, he was the youngest, and it was 2 of his older sisters who took care of him, not to mention many many others, especially people at church, I've heard many stories of raising younger syblings.

 

It does seem a bit confusing doesn't it LE?

But taken in light of scriptures that say "will God not do what is right" (Cindi's paraphase) we must realize that that Proverbs are general principals and do not always take into account our increasingly corrupt world. In a perfect world, Proverbs would perform perfectly. In our imperfect world when you get down to specifics, they don't.

This doesn't mean they are any less true or that we should disregard them entirely. We simply have to take into account the whole of scripture and not just pull out little parts that we think we like and fail to apply to those the restraint other scriptures would give.

 

Shortandy,

Would you answer two questions for me?

1. Are you married?

2. Do you have any children?

Just curious.

 

Older women teaching younger women, is not little girls of 8 yrs old.
Responsibilities is one thing, doing mom's job is another.
if you haven't noticed, we don't have children running our nation, or that I know of any other nation.
Since your asking for scripture, how about scripture that tells us to out bred anyone else.

 

Donna, I don't discount that there are mothers of large families who don't raise their children properly. Remember my grandmother had 14 children and most of her children had more than 2 each. I have lots and lots of cousins!

However, there are just as many small families who have the exact same problem! My own mother left most of the household chores to my brother and I (starting when I was about 10. I really can't remember much before then and I've often wonder why) and then when things weren't done to her satisfaction, instead of teaching us to do better, choose to beat the living daylights out of us. I know all about bad parenting and it's not limited to large families! I could only have wished my mother was simply busy giving me more siblings, instead she was busy being mentally ill and addicted to perscription drugs! (PTL, He took away her ability to produce more children to abuse after I was born!) But if I had to choose between the having more brothers and sister and having a crazy, addicted mother, guess what I would choose! I'd have more siblings in a minute!

This is why I say that the number of children a family produces must remain a matter of personal preferance and no can choose that number for another. There are some folks who don't need a pet, much less a child!

Large families are not bad simply because of their size. Other things matter soooo much more.

 

The reason I asked was that there have been some who are unmarried with no kids trying to tell all us married folk how it's done.

I hope y'all aren't trying to fix this offspring gap (Muslim vs. Christian) all on your own.

BTW, sure sorry for your loss, and praying for a healthy #2.

 

Your right, God told Adam and Eve to muliply, a command to them, not to us. Have you got anything in context?
Parents are to be parents, children should not have to be parents of someone elses kids. You would take away a kids childhood. Diapers to adults, nothing in between.

 

i guess you and i are going to have to agree to disagree.

i do not see how a child (no matter the age) doing chores is the same as them doing the mother's / father's job.

my children (13, 10 & 8 ) all know how to sweep. they do the sweeping at breakfast, lunch and snack. i sweep after dinner and mop if needed. now....how is it that they shouldn't be expected to clean up after the mess that are made? what you are describing as a "mother" isn't a mother at all it is a *maid*.

so, i guess if i have to go to the bathroom and the baby starts to fuss it would be the older ones doing my job if i ask them or expect them to give the baby a toy or hold her till i get out of the bathroom???

define what needs to be for a "childhood"

the time between diapers to being an adult needs to be filled with ***learning to be an adult***

spending time in foolishness will lead you no where.

 

sorry...dbl post