Become one flesh

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Plain ol' Ralph, Oct 11, 2004.

  1. Plain ol' Ralph

    Plain ol' Ralph
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    How do men divide that which God has made one flesh?
     
  2. Plain ol' Ralph

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    Can they? And please restrain your emotions, let's reason together, and that w/o all the rants and judgments, from all angles. [​IMG]
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Just for clarification POR, I assume this is a divorce discussion?
     
  4. Plain ol' Ralph

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    No, marriage is the discussion, and how can any man divide that which God has joined?

    I'm looking for scriptural evidences, if any, how that which is become "one flesh" is afterwards divided?

    Death is one way, but man is only able to perform that by killing one's mate.
     
  5. Plain ol' Ralph

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    I see some are stumped at this one?
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    My thoughts on One Flesh is procreation. A family can never be divided once joined by the birth of a child.

    One flesh cannot be divided.

    Matt. 19:4 "Haven't you read," He replied, "that He who created them in the beginning made them male and female, 5 and He also said: For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, man must not separate."

    The LXX., Vulgate, Syriac, Arabic, and Samaritan read, "they two;" as is also read in several of the Parallel Passages.
    Malachi 2:14-16; Matthew 19:3-9; Mark 10:6-12; Romans 7:2; 1 Corinthians 6:16,17; 7:2-4,10
    1 Corinthians 7:11; Ephesians 5:28-31; 1 Timothy 5:14; 1 Peter 3:1-7
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    Dividing what God has joined is a discussion about divorce. Jesus said it was permissable in certain instances. IN fact, CHrist very command not to separate what God has joined is de facto evidence that it can be broken. If it couldn't be broken, why command to not break it.?

    So clearly, the one flesh relationship can be broken. "Should it be broken" is the question we should be asking. The answer there is an unequivocal no.
     
  8. Plain ol' Ralph

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    So? The intsitution of marriage stands with the Lord and is "attempted" to be done away by man?

    And since the life of a man rests in the hands of God, death is the only alternative to break this becoming one flesh?
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    I am not sure what you are asking here. God ordained marriage and he sets the rules for it. Man can regulate certain civil rights about it (taxes, licenses, etc.) Man does not get to change God's rule. That is one reason why "gay marriage" is an oxymoron. It is an impossibility. Man has attempted to do away with God's rules on marriage.

    No, clearly not. God did give situations in which the union is or can be broken. Again, God makes the rules on that. When God said it can be broken by thus and such, then it can be broken.
     
  10. Daniel David

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    The union can be broken, but not restored to its original condition.

    Example: glue two pieces of paper together. Now, after the glue has dried, take them apart. You cannot undo what has joined them.
     
  11. Plain ol' Ralph

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    Moses did, not the LORD. Moses was acting only on the part of a man and the hardness of a man's heart. We should better follow godliness, that is the LORD's example and only redeem the offender unto ourselves, not break the vow of marriage, death is the ONLy thing that breaks a marriage vow and releases the spouse to marry another. look closely at Romans 7
     
  12. Plain ol' Ralph

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    Good point, DD [​IMG]
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    Are you questioning the deity of Christ? Christ said "I say to you ..." That is very certainly the Lord speaking.

    Are you questioning the inspriation of the Mosaic Law? God wrote the Law and the Law gives instances where it can be broken. It was due to hardness fo heart to be sure, but the fact remains that God said it can be broken, both in the OT and the NT. In fact, God condoned the breaking of it in Ezra 10.

    I agree absolutely and without hesitation.

    That simply is not true. Both the Law of Moses (which we are not under) and the words of Christ give instances where the marriage is breakable.
     
  14. Johnv

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    This is, unfortunately, true. A couple whose marriage has been broken by, say, adultery or abuse, must, of they so choose to, renew their covenant and work to extremes to ensure that the covenant endures for their lifetime.

    It should be noted that all sin, no matter how small, severs our relationship with God, and each other. We can forgive, and receive forgiveness, but with every sin we encounter, it becomes mroe difficult to consinue our relationship. Hence, we must endeavor to refrain from sinning against the Lord, and sinning aginst each other. This is especially true in the marital covenant.
     
  15. Plain ol' Ralph

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    Are you questioning the deity of Christ? Christ said "I say to you ..." That is very certainly the Lord speaking.

    Are you questioning the inspriation of the Mosaic Law? God wrote the Law and the Law gives instances where it can be broken. It was due to hardness fo heart to be sure, but the fact remains that God said it can be broken, both in the OT and the NT. In fact, God condoned the breaking of it in Ezra 10.

    I agree absolutely and without hesitation.

    That simply is not true. Both the Law of Moses (which we are not under) and the words of Christ give instances where the marriage is breakable.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Learn to separate the man Moses from the Mosaic Law, then learn exactly what Jesus was doing in Matthew 5; repeating the law of the man Moses, not the mandate or example of the LORD, Himself.

    BTW. don't start playing this little game of insinuation, OK? I never questioned, nor ever have questioned the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ!!
     
  16. Plain ol' Ralph

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    Marriage is never broken by anything but death of the spouse, or else Paul lied in Romans 7, NOT.

    We're speaking of the marriage as the Lord sees it, not mere men.

    remember, man only looks on the outward appearance, the Lord looketh on the inward parts.
     
  17. Marcia

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    The law in Deut 24 concerning divorce was given by God through Moses; it was not Moses' law. Are you saying all these commandments and instructions were Moses' idea?? If you are, I am really astonished that you would say or think that.

    Starting in Deut 4.1, God's word has Moses saying he is giving all the laws and commandments from God.

    This is repeated in 4.5, 4.8, 4.14, 4.45, 5.1, 5.31, 6.1, 7.11, 7.12, 8.11, 11.32, 12.1, 19.9, and further. It is made very clear that all the laws and regulations in Deut. are being given by God, not by Moses. Moses is merely passing them on.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    This is a serious problem for you. You want to separate the words of Moses from the words of God. Scripture will permit no such thing. The Law of Moses is the Law of God. Moses wrote what God told him to. The divorce provisions therefore came from God.

    It is not a game of insinuation in the least. It was a direct statement. With respect to the permitting of divorce, you said "Moses did, not the Lord" (see your post on page 2). I showed you a clear place in Matt 19 where Christ permitted divorce. If you say that the Lord did not permit divorce, but acknowledge the clear truth that Christ did, then you have de facto questioned teh deity of Christ by saying that he was not the Lord since the Lord did not say something that Christ did. You cannot have it both ways. Christ clearly permitted divorce (whether he permitted remarriage or not is another issue). If Christ permitted divorce and teh Lord did not, then you have said that Christ is not the Lord.

    I think you misunderstand the point of Rom 7. Paul is using a general principle to teach a different lesson. We do this all the time, not because hte general principle is absolute, but becuase it generally makes the point. Paul himself made an allowance for divorce in 1 Cor 7. Did Paul contradict himself? Of course not. Paul didn't lie, either in Rom 7 or 1 Cor 7.

    I agree, and God gave instances where divorce was permissable and instances where it was not.
     
  19. Sularis

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    Wow - someone saying divorce is acceptable unto God and allowed by Him

    Tsk Tsk

    *buzzer sound* thats wrong Larry

    While Jesus may have given a reason in Matthew 19:9 on the grounds of adultery you forgot His previous statement - It was because the people could not live up to the perfect standard of NO divorce AT ALL!

    Perhaps you conveniently forget that the culture of the time killed adulterers.

    Divorce was meant to be a death sentence - a killing of a part of yourself.

    DEATH is the only allowable dissolution of the marriage bond - and since we do not kill adulterers today - regretfully the cuckolded folk dont get to remarry since their marriage bond is NOT broken by the adultery. There is no excuse no reason, no verse to say elsewise

    Only in death is the other spouse free to remarry. Cuckolded or not. To do elsewise is to sin
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    It continues to astound me when I see how many people will not believe that Matthew is an accurate recording of God's word, that the Mosaic Law is actually what Paul called glory, and Ezra was pleasing to God. There are several specific instances in Scripture where God allows divorce.

    Incidentally, Sularis believes half of what Christ said. It was because of hte sinfulness of man' heart that the MOsaic Law permitted divorce. And Christ clarified by "And I say unto you" which clearly attributes his own allowance of divorce for sexual immorality to himself. The Mosaic Law gives instances where divorce is permitted and instances where divorce is not permitted. The only escape from that for your side is to deny that God inspired the Mosaic Law. I don't agree with that. Ezra, in his calling of God back to Israel, commanded that Israelite men divorce their foreign wives. And that was pleasing to God.

    This is a clear issue in Scripture. We can debate whether or not remarriage is possible, though I don't think there is much debate about that either. But it is impossible to practice honest accurate exegesis and say that divorce was never permitted by God. It simply is untenable. All you need to do is read the Scripture to see that.
     

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