Become one flesh

This reminds me of something my mother told me once

It takes years to earn respct, and honor

And only the suspicion to kill it. It dosen't matter how hard you try. The devil CAN and WILL destory your bonds. He dosen't care about the promises made to God. He will push and pull and do his level best to destory you and everyone around you. It takes a great deal of intellegence (to realize what is going on), perserverence ( faith), and a loving heart. I know the the devil tried to destory my marriage.

He did so, because my salvation counted on my marriage. If i had divorced my husband I honestly think I never would have been saved. HE will try and stop you.

And to be honest why would he, he dosen't wanna be the only one in heaven. He wants us all down there for company. Makes me wonder why he can't be fit company for himself. Afterall at one time he was a great angel, now he's the butt of every joke all because of pride.

Just my honest opinion

 

Divorce was supposed to be a death sentence

The Mosaic law was not to be used as it was - and to say that because it was; justifies it; is foolishness!

Jesus clearly delineates when divorce was supposed to be permissible under the Mosaic law - fornication ie adultery - which WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A DEATH SENTENCE

Adultery does not break the marriage bonds - DEATH and Death alone does

 

Not always. God gave provisions where death was not required. Again, that can be determined simply by reading the Bible.

What??? You are saying that God gave a law he didn't intend anyone to follow? And you say what I said was foolishness??? Surely you jest. I am just silly enough to believe that when God gave the Law to Moses, he expected it to be followed.

See, here is the strange thing to me ... Jesus is not even talking about life under the MOsaic Law. He is talking about his own teaching. He said "Moses allowed it for hardness of heart ... But I say to you." In other words, this it the teaching of Jesus.

Adultery compromises the marriage bond. Divorce breaks it, whether you like it or not. That is the clear teaching of Scripture. In fact, if divorce doesn't break it, then what does divorce do and why is it such a big deal? THe reason why divorce is such a big deal is because it breaks the marriage bond.

I don't understand why some go to such lengths to get around what the Bible says. Why not just accept it? Why not understand that I am not condoning divorce, promoting divorce. I think divorce is always the result of sin. It is never the way God intended it to be. But it does break a marriage.

 

Amen, Pastor Larry.

Anyone care to move into the epistles of Paul as touching this issue?

 

Okay folks, get a grip! If marriage is only dissolved by death, then you have lots of couples who divorced for reasons other than are scripturally allowable who are living in adultry. From what I have read, some of you will echo a hearty "amen" to that statement. But, are these couples members in good standing in your churches? Have you disciplined them for the adultry they committed by marrying? Or, do you accept the laws of the land that dissolve marriages legally, recognizing that the same has been done, by law, since the time of Moses?

Marriage is an earthly institution ordained by God. God intended the union between a man and a woman to be a life-long commitment, but we have not lived up to God's intention. So, what's to be done with those who have failed in matrimony and remarried? You cannot postulate on marriage and divorce without addressing the consequence of your position.

 

Sorry Ralph, I have to disagree. Marriage is represented by the legal ceremony that binds a couple lawfully. A legal proceeding that dissolves that marriage contract effectively severs the marriage tie.

I do not argue that God intended for marriage to last a lifetime, but the reality is that many times it does not. Divorce is the antithesis of marriage and I do not believe anyone has opposed that, even those who have been through it, for whatever cause.

Still, if you maintain that marriages cannot be broken by any means other than death, how do you treat those who have been divorced (for reasons considered unscriptural) and are now remarried? By your definition these brothers and sisters are living in open adultry!

You simply cannot assume the postion you have without taking a stand on this issue. I am simply asking how do you address this? It is not emotional, by any stretch of the imagination. It is simply discussion. I would appreciate an answer.

 

AGAIN, JESUS SAID.... 'from the beginning (creation or God's plan for us ??) it was NOT SO'.

Of course, now we have Baptists who think they can live together without a marriage license and it's still marriage so we're beating our heads against brick walls.

 

So, when you find out that a members of your church has been divorced and remarried, what do you do? Do you discipline them somehow? Kick them out? Ignore? what?

No one here has promoted living together without being married. So, what are you beating your heads for?

 

This is a completely unbiblical distinction. It is the heart of neo-orthodoxy and liberalism ... that the words of Scripture aren't really the words of God but the words of man. Listen well, Ralph: The Law came from God. It is not merely the words of man. The words of Scripture are the words of God. All Scripture is God-breathed ... not just the parts you like.

There is a very valid scriptural argument that divorce does include the right to remarry. It may not, but it may. But there is no scriptural argument that divorce does not end a marriage. It does.

 

Again, we all agree with that, I think. I don't know of anyone who disagrees, but that is not the point here.

That some Baptists may believe that is true. But that does not mean you are beating your head against a brick wall here. I don't know of anyone here who believes that. I certainly don't. I do think you are beating your head against Scripture ...

 

Ralph: I really do not understand your reply. I fail to understand how you can promote your position without adopting a position towards those that remarry after divorcing for other than scriptural cause. Do you believe they are living in an adultrous relationship? If not, then how can you adopt the married till death position? If so, then how can you ignore the adultry? I am afraid you've painted yourself into a corner.

The position you are promoting does not allow you to stop with simply stating marriage is until death without adopting additional guidelines for those who divorce and remarry for other than scriptural cause.

I am not picking on you, but I do believe it is an important point in this discussion.

 

Nice try at changing the subject, but it won't work. The record of the words of the King of Tyre are inspired by God without question. However, the Law is a completely different issue. The Law was given by God to Israe for their civil constitution. You cannot escape with such subject changing. God gave the Law.

You can't invite a conversation about breaking the marriage vows without talking about divorce. And no one here is asking man to validate God's word. I am asking you to simply accept what he says in his word.

Not always. Divorce also brings protection and preservation. Christ himself allowed for divorce. It is not God's best, but it is permissable in some cases.

That is simply not true. The only thing you need to do to understand that is read the Scripture.

This is a place where we need to hold the word of God above the opinions of man on both sides. There are those who, like the Pharisees, permit divorce for any reason at all. They are wrong. There are those who forbid divorce in every case. They are wrong as well. The Bible clearly testifies that both sides are wrong. We need to follow God's word.

I do not condone divorce. I think it is always the result of sin. It should be avoided at all costs. But it cannot always be done. God is a God of grace and forgiveness. We should not be less.

 

What did Jesus say?

Two things
1. In the beginning divorce was not an option or supposed to be
2. If any man divorce save for fornication - wham adultery!

What did Moses say fine you bums you can get divorced

Im not disputing Mosaic law - Im disputing a clear case of where NT law supersedes or rather limits OT law.

after all we are no longer under that law - we are under a new law that is grace

However if you need it rephrased - what Jesus says goes - what Moses said good - from God too - but God came down and clarified it for us too dumb to get the point.

And any of you arguing yeah divorce are decievers

Hey I tell people you've been divorced and yer remarried is your husband/wife dead? Wow I never thought I would get to meet an adulter in the open - Thanx

They get mad at me and I say prove me wrong - give them the nearest Bible and they inevitably turn to the OT - I say all well and good - but could you show me from the NT what it says about the OT - I can if you like.

Havent been proven wrong yet - been called fundementalist - close-minded - coldhearted - SOB

But hey truth is truth - divorce is not supposed to a flippant answer - its why marriage isnt supposed to be so flippant either

 

Yes. I am glad to see you finally admitting that Jesus did give an instance of acceptable divorce.

Actually, neither is the case. The OT Law was Israel's law. Since we are not Israel, we are not under their Law. It is not a matter of superceding or limiting; it is a matter of jurisdiction. We are no more answerable to the laws of Israel, then we in America are answerable to the laws of England.

Don't need it rephrased at all. When you read the context, you see that Jesus was talking to people who had changed the Law. They had added all kinds of things to it. I see it in a similar way. We have people today who say that divorce is never acceptable and some that go even further and say that divorce is not even possible--that you are still married even if you divorce. Those are people who, like the Pharisees, have added to the teaching of God.

Not sure what that means.

We certainly agree about that. No one here is suggesting that divorce be taken lightly or flippantly. I am merely suggesting that we hold to what God actually said about divorce.

 

Yes. I am glad to see you finally admitting that Jesus did give an instance of acceptable divorce.

Actually, neither is the case. The OT Law was Israel's law. Since we are not Israel, we are not under their Law. It is not a matter of superceding or limiting; it is a matter of jurisdiction. We are no more answerable to the laws of Israel, then we in America are answerable to the laws of England.

Don't need it rephrased at all. When you read the context, you see that Jesus was talking to people who had changed the Law. They had added all kinds of things to it. I see it in a similar way. We have people today who say that divorce is never acceptable and some that go even further and say that divorce is not even possible--that you are still married even if you divorce. Those are people who, like the Pharisees, have added to the teaching of God.

Not sure what that means.

We certainly agree about that. No one here is suggesting that divorce be taken lightly or flippantly. I am merely suggesting that we hold to what God actually said about divorce. There is room for difference on this. I fully understand your side and am sympathetic to much of it. I find it weak in several areas exegetically which is why I do not hold that position. At the same time, I understand that there are weaknesses in my position. There is no reason to be running someone else into the ground simply because they differ from you on this point.