Beer is Proof God Loves Us

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Ps104_33, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    [FONT=times new roman,times]America was built by drinkers. States [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]Christianity Today[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]: [/FONT]


    [FONT=times new roman,times]"Though Christian objections to alcohol and tobacco may be called ‘Puritanical' by some, these stances are actually of much more recent vintage. In fact, the Puritans drank beer. The Mayflower log book from 1620 records that one of the reasons that ship stopped at Plymouth, rather than searching for a more hospitable spot further south, was ‘our victuals being much spent, especially our beere.'" [/FONT]




    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/03/beer_is_proof_god_loves_us.html
     
  2. Marcia

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    Well, I guess if the Puritans drank beer, then it must be okay. That's how I decide what to do - I always check to see if the Puritans did it, and if Christianity Today thinks it's okay. [​IMG]
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    Personally I'd suggest that scotch whiskey is a better proof (pun intended.) ;)

    oh boy...here we go!

    It is well known that the early Baptists, English Separatists and Anabaptists along with the Puritans drank beer daily. It was better and cleaner than the water from their rivers and wells (particularly in major cities.) Things changed for the Mayflower Puritans when they got to the New World and discovered water that was pure and better tasting than their beer.

    That said it should not be a license to condone drunkenness. Drinking isn't an issue biblically, drunkenness is. Now I'll sit back and be assailed! :D
     
  4. Marcia

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    To me the issue isn't drinking but that CT seems to imply that if the Puritans did something, then it's okay. I find that very interesting.

    They are making a point about "puritanical," I know, but at the same time there is an implication there and a subtle jab at those who oppose drinking, imo.

    Some may choose not to drink because they are alcoholic, live with alcoholics, grew up with alcoholics, or do not want to be a stumbling block to alcoholics.
     
  5. Revmitchell

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    There s nothing in scripture that says it is sinful to drink alcohol. But it does say getting drunk is sinful. I wonder how many teetotaler Christians will admit to getting past being sober.

    The bigger problem is the testimony of buying and drinking alcohol. Alcohol is known for being a tool used to "party" with. Abstain from all appearances of evil.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    Oops, you're misusing a poor translation of scripture.

    Think about it, Jesus did all sorts of things others thought were sinful like healing on the sabbath and spending time with notorious sinners. If we were to avoid doing things because others (often religious people working up a fit of self-righteousness) might assume these things (or their associations) could be evil, then we wouldn't actually get to do much of the ministry that Jesus has called us to do.

    1 Thessolonians 5 is talking about something quite different.
     
    #6 Baptist Believer, Mar 7, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  7. LeBuick

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    What about being an example to those who are weak? Shouldn't we who are strong abstain as an example to the weak? Lest they feel it ok and fall...

    There are not many who come from a drinking past that can stop at a glass of wine with a meal.
     
  8. Baptist Believer

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    Please note that my respond was focused on the misuse of a verse of scripture as justification for a position, not taking a stand on drink.

    Sure. But what kind of example should we be? Some will say that we should abstain from things to be an example. That may certainly be appropriate. If the Spirit leads you to do that, then by all means do it. Others will say that we should be a living example of moderation, enjoying good things in an appropriate manner, like food, wealth, influence, etc. If the Spirit leads you to do that, then by all means do it.

    There are things that are okay, and then there are things that are not. If you believe alcohol use, in moderation, is biblically okay, then you are free to use it wisely, as the Spirit leads. If you think alcohol use as a beverage in any quantity is not okay, then things are simpler. You don't need the Spirit's guidance, unless, like Peter, you discover that your ideas of clean and unclean are superficial and wrong.

    I don't know if I agree with that. I guess the meaning of your assertion hinges on what you mean by "drinking past."

    If by "drinking past", you are referring to someone who has habitually abused alcohol, then you have a strong point. But if you are talking about someone who has a "drinking past" that is characterized by moderation and examples of moderation, then I completely disagree.

    I have extended family members (mostly Italian Roman Catholic) who come from a family environment where wine was simply something you had with dinner and for celebrations. You drink one glass, maybe two through an evening with a large meal over the course of several hours. No one is intoxicated and the wine complements the meal and digestion.

    Yet other family members (I'm thinking of an aunt and uncle, and their children) who were raised Baptist, with severe restrictions on alcohol and the "appearance" of alcohol use (no root "beer" for them). That aunt and uncle were roaring alcoholics throughout most of their lives to their deaths. They never knew moderation, all they knew were the extreme rules that people like my grandfather (a very severe Baptist chair of deacons) laid down that made little sense and did not conform to scripture.

    As a person who grew up not drinking at all (never wanted to be drunk), I studied this issue in my earlier days after Roy Fish (the well-known Southern Baptist evangelism professor) suggested that male seminarians consider spending time in local neighborhood bars to build relationships and get to know people. Once we get past all of the rhetoric given to us by the so-called Temperance Movement (it quickly became a prohibitionist movement in actuality) the Bible is pretty straightforward about alcohol use.

    Because of that multi-year study, I had my first glass of wine at 33 years-of-age when hospitality was offered at a gathering. My drinking now consists of perhaps 4 glasses of wine a year, total, and I often do not pour or drink a full 4-ounce serving. I have shared wine with other Christians on numerous occasions and no one gets intoxicated or drinks more than one or two glasses in an evening.

    I drink even less now that I have a conceal-carry permit and I am usually carrying a handgun. For legal reasons, it is not a good idea to have any alcoholic beverages because if you have to use the handgun, the grand jury will have to consider whether or not alcohol played any role in your judgement. I'd rather not have that issue before them.
     
  9. abcgrad94

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    I am no fan of Christianity Today, and whether or not the Puritans drank beer is of no consequence to me or my personal walk with God. CT might be more beneficial to Christians if they would focus on Christ and him crucified instead of puritanical behavior that happened hundreds of years ago.
     
  10. Victorious

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    Well, since the board is partying, I might as well confess. When I was pregnant, the head obstetric nurse told me to drink a quarter cup of beer every day. She said it would be good for the baby, GASP!!!

    I took her advice and my son is now a sophomore in college. He has always been on the honor role throughout school and took advanced mathematics at the high school when he was in sixth grade.

    Don't think I'm recommending anyone drink alcohol while pregnant...just that anything in EXCESS is harmful...unless it's drinking in excess from the River of Life. :godisgood:
     
  11. Me4Him

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    The "MAIN" reason beer/wine was drunk was because "WATER" couldn't be stored for long period of time without "going bad".

    The "Cooking process" of beer destroyed bacteria preserving it.

    "Bad water" was also the reason it was drank in the "old country".

    Imagine the problems we have today if it wasn't for water purification plant/distribution,

    That was their problem.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Oops...no I am not. There is no comparison to be made between Jesus healing on the sabbath and buying alcohol. There is no mandate or Kingdom value to alcohol.
     
  13. LeBuick

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    Noted...

    I think you caught the gist, there are many in the Church who came from a trying past of drugs, alcohol etc... I think those of us who are strong should abstain if for no other reason but to show them it can be done.

    I don't drink personally but my wife drinks wine every now and then. I was at a Church once and the visiting evangelist said he needed to rush his sermon a bit so he could catch the liquor store before it closed. My feelings churn thinking of one yearning for personal delight while conducting kingdom business. I have also heard preachers cross over the line trying to distinguish "though shalt not get drunk" from "a little won't hurt". People hear and perceive things differently.

    I'm not one who believes a little sin is more acceptable than a lot of sin. I believe sin is sin. When one plays on the road which leads to sin, it is hard to keep sin away. I prefer staying off the road thereby not fearing how far down the road I may unintentionally go.
     
  14. Ps104_33

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    I think you may have missed a joke there.
     
  15. saturneptune

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    I'll drink to that.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. LeBuick

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    I probably did... Wouldn't be the first time I missed a preachers joke... :laugh: :thumbsup:

    You think he wanted to witness to the people going in and out?
     
  17. Victorious

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    I'm not sure we are in any better shape today since we drink industrial toxic waste (flouride) :tear:
     
  18. preachinjesus

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    But where does the point end?

    Can people who have struggled with their weight ask those who enjoy a buffet or two (or three) to abstain?
    Can people who have struggled with envy ask those who drive nicer cars to trade them in and drive some less extravagant?
    Can people who have struggled with hair loss ask those with full heads of hair to shave them for their sake?
    Can people who have struggled with staying on rhythm ask those who listen to rhythmic music, or who clap in unity during worship to abstain?

    At what point does one's search for legalism counteract my God-given Christian liberty?

    Or are we to be a bunch of pious, teetotaler, thin, used car owning, bald, atonal monks who have cannot enjoy life but believe actions equal spirituality alone?
     
  19. Timsings

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    Close to thirty years ago I attended a meeting of the now defunct SBC Historical Commission in Nashville in order to hear a paper being presented by Walter Shurden. His topic was Baptist associational practice in the early 1800's. Since I had taken some classes from him in college, I expected the paper to be good.

    Shurden said that associational meetings, especially in rural areas, often took on the air of a carnival or fair. There were numerous booths where local people could sell their local products: food, clothing, tools, and, yes, liquor. When Shurden said that, there was almost a noticeable gasp in the room. He went on to say that eventually the liquor booths had to be done away with because it had become increasingly difficult to conduct the business of the association at the meeting. After this there was an almost audible sigh of relief. No one seemed to care that the morality of drinking was not the issue, just the practical matter of getting the associational business finished in a timely manner. :D

    I am like others here on the BB. I drink a little, but my annual consumption doesn't amount to much. I did not grow with any alcohol in my house, so I don't miss it, and I don't think about it.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  20. Timsings

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    I score 2 out of 7 on this scale. :D

    Tim Reynolds
     

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