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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mickes, Jul 11, 2007.
can people still be possessed by demons nowadays?
I've seen some in the Philippines.
And have participated in some "exorcism", or "casting out".
And the pastor of the church was always careful to make sure it wasn't a psychological case before proceeding.
How about you're preaching up there and in comes this raggedy looking guy, with his eyes all red, his hair all disheveled, barefeet, foul breath, one hundred and thirty pounds but able to push aside a 250 lb guy (me), and send a 300 lb solid wooden pew sliding to the far corner of the church with a one hand push ?
He points at you, and says, "I've been wanting to face up with you, Jorge", Jorge is the pastor's name.
So the church deacons and workers (I was a worker once) pounce on him and cast out and all that stuff, and it takes like four or five hours before he gives a big burp and you feel the air come out of him, and the air rush out the door.
Then he looks around and asks where he was, and who were we ?
And he says last he remembered he was working on a house under construction 15 miles away !
But......there be some, even among my people, the Primitive Baptists, who take demon possession lightly, even with disdain, looking down their noses at one who thinks it still happens.
I do not see any reason why it could not happen these days.
Pretty compelling story, pinoy! The demon possessed do have inordinate strength. There's a guy named Bob (?) Larsen who says he casts out demons regularly but, after reading his book, I don't believe him.
Well, that story really happened.
And we figured the guy walked those fifteen miles because he was all sweaty and dusty when he came in and his feet were all caked up with road dust, and he sure was hungry as hell (no pun intended :laugh: ), I had to make two trips to the store for bread and soda.
I've seen pretty rough things this side of the OP's question.
But I don't dwell much in them, and only share them when asked, because, after all, God is greater than they are, and the Bible says to think on whatsoever things are good.......
As for the Bob Larsens of this world, yeah, I know what you're saying.
They write as if the glory and power is theirs, and almost promote demon worship and demon fear with all those pretty amazing stories they share, like this lady Elizabeth Brown.
If I believed half her story, I'd be scared my neighbors are either witches, or werewolves.
I have heard many stories of demon possession in places like Africa, the Phillipines, even Haiti. For what it's worth, I have no trouble believing these stories.
Why does it happen so often in places like these but not in the US? I usually hear two quite different answers to a question like this, but I'm curious as to what you folks think.
Just my opinion, fwiw.
I think demon possession may be happening frequently in the US, too.
Except that these spirits are pretty good at disguising themselves from what I hear, and so those they infest can sometimes be mistaken for just being plain looney.
And then, there's the tendency of Western culture to not believe these things happen, so they (the possessed and the possessors) get by.
I think some of those more sensational serial killers may be demon possessed, like John Wayne Gacey, for one.
And my wife is absolutely convinced at least one of those popular illusionists on tv is actually possessed.
How could you pass thru tin or glass in front of a crowd of people ? Or walk on water ?
Or levitate from one building's roof to another 20 feet up ?
Wow...that's one chilling story. Just makes you wonder how many demon possessed people we come into contact with in our lives...
I believe this too. Go back and look at some footage of Jeff Dahmer during his trial...and then later after he accepted Christ in prison. You would seriously think they were two different people based on appearance alone.
Yeah, that's almost both answers I've heard in one reply. More specifically, I've heard the devil and his minions prefer to disguise or not do it at all because they accomplish their goal more easily by getting Americans to believe they don't exist. I don't know if that's true, but that's the other answer I've heard.
Who is the guy who levitates from one building to another? I've never heard abou that.
Criss Angel. I think he has his show on A&E. You can actually go to youtube.com and type in criss angel levitation.
My wife is so convinced he is demon infested and draws his abilities from the devil she turns off the tv when his show comes on.
I've kind of felt that way, too. If you think about it, satan doesn't want the focus on himself...but the focus taken off of God and put on themselves (self). Man on his own is going to hell, and satan and his workers just want to make sure that it stays that way. Putting the focus on him only brings the fact there is a God into light, and that is the furthest thing from satan's mind.
I wonder if believers can see demonic possession...while the demons disguise themselves to unbelievers?
I checked it out. You should show her some of the youtube videos that reveal how he does some of his tricks. He uses "plants" (people pretending to be strangers who act amazed at his tricks). He also uses edited films, which you can use to make just about anything happen.
He even reveals one of his own tricks. He shows how he uses a fake pant leg and shoe to make it look like he's levitating up to the level of a box or wall. That's not the same trick as levitating between buildings (which is probably done using wires, actors and film editing). But it's a clever trick.
Edit: I've seen the passing things through glass tricks done by others. The two things they all have in common is they rap on the glass to make it seem solid, and then they cover up the glass where they pass things through (cover it with their hands, or with paper, etc.
Rapping on something not solid but appears to be glass is very easy. You just go through the motions of rapping on that part of the glass and make the sound with something else in your hand. Passing things through requires that you prepare the glass ahead of time.
As for covering up the spot, if it was real, there would be no need to cover up that part as they pass things through the glass.
The trick to making this appear real is to be convincing about the fact that you're using any old pane of glass that happens to be handy. But it's very easy to make a deal with the people who own the stores, etc., so that you can prepare the glass for your trick ahead of time.
okay. I'm not a big fan of his, though.
I think he and Benny Hinn will make good company, the way you say it.
Whacha think ?:laugh:
Is this in youtube too ? Looks like I missed this one.
Yup. Here you go....
Here's another one where they show how he uses a mirror and a hired "onlooker".
Yeah, he seems like a cross between a magician and Howard Stern, and that doesn't appeal to me at all. But I figure he's just an illusionist and his creepiness is part of his act.
I have to agree with James Randi. He basically says illusion and trickery are just fine. In fact, James Randi is an accomplished magician, himself. But people cross the line when they try to convince others that what they're doing is real psychic phenomenon or magic. That's when Randi steps in and starts debunking people.
I don't know diddly about Criss Angel, so I don't know if he ever tries to make people believe what he does is real. But the fact that he actually reveals one of his tricks makes it seem to me that he's not pretending to be anything more than an illusionist.
Edit: I must have clicked something by accident - I didn't mean for this post to have a frowny face. Or maybe it was.... magic!!
Sorry to keep going on this topic, but I just saw two different takes on his ripping a woman in half. I actually cracked up at how silly it was. The top half of the woman runs around with her hands and arms, cut off at the waist. Now who would do that? If someone ripped you in half, would you run around with your hands as half a person? I wouldn't. I'd lay there screaming to make him put me back together!
Then someone points out how the upper half of the woman magically shrinks as he pulls the woman apart (trick photography to make it look more real), and then shows how big and fat the half-woman becomes when she runs around with her hands and arms (she obviously is a gymnastics person hired to do this and has her legs folded up inside her blouse).
The greater the darkness (ignorance of God) the greater the persuasive powers of the spirits (thoughts) of demons.