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Featured Being saved and the 10 commandments

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Chowmah, May 14, 2015.

  1. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Anyways, gettin back to the original question. Heres directions to the city where you will dwell with Christ

    REV.22 [12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. [14] Blessed are they that DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

    The scriptures are clear. Follow the directions to the city. Keep Gods 10 commandments if you wish to enter the city {the kingdom rest}

    JER.17 [24] And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to BRING IN NO BURDEN THROUGH THE GATES OF THIS CITY ON THE SABBATH DAY, BUT HALLOW THE SABBATH DAY, to do no work therein;[25] Then shall there ENTER INTO THE GATES OF THIS CITY kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: AND THIS CITY SHALL REMAIN FOR EVER.

    I only know of one city which will remain for ever and the directions to that city are a bit more detailed in Jer.17

    MATT.11 [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I WILL GIVE YOU REST.[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.[30] For MY yoke is easy, AND MY BURDEN IS LIGHT..... Jer.17{24}

    MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at THE STRAIT GATE: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it......Jer.17{25}

    PSALM 132 [11] The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. [12] IF THY CHILDREN WILL KEEP MY COVENANT AND MY TESTIMONY that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. [13] FOR THE LORD HATH CHOSEN ZION; HE HATH DESIRED IT FOR HIS HABITATION. [14] THIS IS MY REST FOR EVER: HERE WILL I DWELL; FOR I HAVE DESIRED IT. [15] I will abundantly bless her provision: I will satisfy her poor with bread. [16] I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints shall shout aloud for joy. [17] There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed.

    Verse12. Keep my covenant {10 commandments} and my testimony {of Jesus}

    REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

    yup
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Bob, I can say no more than has already been said on the topic, so, having said that, I will just say been good talking with you again, and Lord willing, talk again with you sometime in the future, whether this side of glory or there.


    God bless.
     
  3. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    The law is temporary?

    ISAIAH 8 [16] Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.[17] And I WILL WAIT UPON THE LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.[18] Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.[19] And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?[20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

    Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my diciples and wait on the Lord. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (explained right after John 3{16}).

    PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. [2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old: [3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. [4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. [5] For HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: [6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: [7] THAT THEY MIGHT SET THEIR HOPE IN GOD, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:

    Who opened his mouth in a parable? Yup, Jesus Christ. And this scripture says he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, that they might set their hope in God and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

    PSALM 119 [32] I will run the way of THY COMMANDMENTS, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.(2COR.6 v.11) [33] Teach me, O Lord, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end. [34] Give me understanding, and I SHALL KEEP THY LAW; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. [35] Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. [36] Incline my heart unto THY TESTIMONIES, and not to covetousness. [37] Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way. [38] Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear. [39] Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good. [40] Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness. [41] Let thy mercies come also unto me, O Lord, EVEN THY SALVATION, according to thy word.

    Here again we find it’s the law (commandments) and the testimony (of Jesus) and this leads to SALVATION.

    PSALM 119 [165] Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. [166] Lord, I have hoped for thy SALVATION, and done THY COMMANDMENTS. [167] My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. [168] I have kept thy precepts and THY TESTIMONIES: for all my ways are before thee.

    and here again

    REV.12 [16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

    WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Opinions differ on a great many subjects that is for sure.

    I will probably add something to this thread about the New Covenant in the OT - for those interested - but I don't expect that everyone will agree no matter what I post. We all have different backgrounds and I am not trying change that - just adding some bits of information.

    God bless.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Since this thread is starting to focus more on the New Covenant in the OT - I am going to start a thread devoted to that subject - so we can stay on topic here.


    ==================

    That thread will discuss the Bible texts that talk about the New Covenant in place - in the Old Testament - pre-cross age.

    First -- what doe the Bible say ?


    [FONT=&quot]New Covenant first found in [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Deut 6:6[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You shall love the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God with all your heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and with all your soul and with all your might.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Jer 31:31-33 – NEW Covenant[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Jer 31[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    31 "" Behold, days are coming,'' declares the LORD, ""when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
    32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,'' declares the LORD.
    33 ""But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,'' declares the LORD, "" I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
    34 ""They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' declares the LORD, ""for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.''
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]1. Laws written on the heart.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Forgiveness of sins.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. Adoption as children - sons of God etc.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. The people of God.
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Ps 37:27-31[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Depart from evil and do good[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    So you will abide forever.
    28 For the Lord loves justice
    And does not forsake His godly ones;
    They are preserved forever,
    But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.
    29 The righteous will inherit the land
    And dwell in it forever.
    30 The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom,
    And his tongue speaks justice.
    31 The law of his God is in his heart;
    His steps do not slip.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Ezek 36:26-27[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]26 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Deut 30:6[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Moreover the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God with all your heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and with all your soul, so that you may live.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Ps 40:8[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I delight[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to do Your will, O my God;[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    Your Law is within my heart.”[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Prov 3:1-3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]My son, do not forget my teaching,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    But let your heart keep my commandments;
    2 For length of days and years of life
    And peace they will add to you.
    3 Do not let kindness and truth leave you;
    Bind them around your neck,
    Write them on the tablet of your heart.[/FONT]
     
  6. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Jeremiah 16:14-15 (KJV)
    14 Therefore, BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
    15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

    Behold, the days come! Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Nope

    Jeremiah 23:5-8 (KJV)
    5 BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
    8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

    Behold, the days come! Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Nope

    Jeremiah 33:14-16 (KJV)
    14 BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
    15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
    16 IN THOSE DAYS SHALL JUDAH BE SAVED, AND JERUSALEM SHALL DWELL SAFELY: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

    Behold, the days come! Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Nope

    Jeremiah 31:31-35 (KJV)
    31 BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; AFTER THOSE DAYS, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    34 AND THEY SHALL TEACH NO MORE EVERY MAN HIS NEIGHBOUR, AND EVERY MAN HIS BROTHER, SAYING, KNOW THE LORD: FOR THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM UNTO THE GREATEST of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Behold, the days come! Has this prophecy been fulfilled. Does EVERYONE know the Lord? Why in the wide wide world of sports do you people claim this covenant is not in the future
     
  7. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    This "new covenant" has arrived

    ZECH.9 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

    Verse 9 definately prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

    HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    New covenant...blood

    LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

    New testament...blood

    HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    old covenant...blood of goats

    HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

    old testament...blood of bulls and goats; the shadow of Christ

    He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

    And theres the 2nd
     
  8. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Never said we are saved by keeping the commandments. But must we "observe" to keep them. Yup.
     
  9. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    So BrotherJoe is this yoke of bondage the 10 commandments or is it circumsision?

    GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.......... [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

    Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments as the “many” would have you to believe or circumcision?

    EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

    ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

    BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

    EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

    LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

    Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

    JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

    Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage” {Gal.4:24}?

    And the winner is....

    GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

    GALATIANS 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was COMPELLED TO BE CIRCUMCISED: [4]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Do you consider Christ to be a "legalist" in Mark 7:6-13??
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1. As noted above -the LAW written on the heart - was already the case in the OT - and thus Matt 17 Moses AND Elijah WITH Christ in bodily form prior to the cross.

    2. Your "solution" is to argue that the saints are not under the New Covenant???

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    29 These are the words of the covenant, which the Lord commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

    2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;

    3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:

    4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

    5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

    6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the Lord your God.

    7 And when ye came unto this place, Sihon the king of Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, came out against us unto battle, and we smote them:

    8 And we took their land, and gave it for an inheritance unto the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to the half tribe of Manasseh.

    9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.

    10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,

    11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:

    12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day:

    13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

    14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;

    15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

    16 (For ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by;

    17 And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them:)

    18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;

    19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

    20 The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven.

    21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

    22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;

    23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

    24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?
     
  13. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    You know that what you say is not true. Im only saying they are not yet under the covenant of Jer.31. That covenant is in the future.
     
  14. Chowmah

    Chowmah Member

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    Ps 37:27-31
    Depart from evil and do good,
    So you will abide forever.
    28 For the Lord loves justice
    And does not forsake His godly ones;
    They are preserved forever,
    But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.
    29 The righteous will inherit the land
    And dwell in it forever.

    30 The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom,
    And his tongue speaks justice.
    31 The law of his God is in his heart;
    His steps do not slip.

    BOB, you posted this scripture as proof that the Jer.31 covenant is here. I suppose your next gonna tell me the righteous have ALREADY inherited the land God promised them. Whoops, i forgot u guys dont beieve the righteous will inherit the land when the wicked are cut off. You claim your flittin off to heaven. Sorry, i forgot
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 31 says it is the "New Covenant" and

    These texts show that even in the OT - the Law was written on the heart. -


    [FONT=&quot]New Covenant "Law [FONT=&quot]written on heart" [/FONT] first found in [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Deut 6:6[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]5 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]You shall love the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God with all your heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and with all your soul and with all your might.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Jer 31:31-33 – NEW Covenant[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Jer 31[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    31 "" Behold, days are coming,'' declares the LORD, ""when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
    32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,'' declares the LORD.
    33 ""But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,'' declares the LORD, "" I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
    34 ""They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,'' declares the LORD, ""for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.''
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]1. Laws written on the heart.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2. Forgiveness of sins.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3. Adoption as children - sons of God etc.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]4. The people of God.
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Ps 37:27-31[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Depart from evil and do good[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    So you will abide forever.
    28 For the Lord loves justice
    And does not forsake His godly ones;
    They are preserved forever,
    But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.
    29 The righteous will inherit the land
    And dwell in it forever.
    30 The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom,
    And his tongue speaks justice.
    31 The law of his God is in his heart;
    His steps do not slip.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Ezek 36:26-27[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]26 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Deut 30:6[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Moreover the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] your God with all your heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and with all your soul, so that you may live.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Ps 40:8[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I delight[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to do Your will, O my God;[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    Your Law is within my heart.”[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Prov 3:1-3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]My son, do not forget my teaching,[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    But let your heart keep my commandments;
    2 For length of days and years of life
    And peace they will add to you.
    3 Do not let kindness and truth leave you;
    Bind them around your neck,
    Write them on the tablet of your heart.[/FONT]
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    [FONT=&quot]Ps 37:27-31[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Depart from evil and do good[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    So you will abide forever.
    28 For the Lord loves justice
    And does not forsake His godly ones;
    They are preserved forever,
    But the descendants of the wicked will be cut off.
    29 The righteous will inherit the land
    And dwell in it forever.
    30 The mouth of the righteous utters wisdom,
    And his tongue speaks justice.
    31 The law of his God is in his heart;
    His steps do not slip.[/FONT]

    I posted it to show that the "Law written on the heart" is something well known in the pre-cross OT age - and it is the same that you find in Jer 31 as we see in Ps 37.

    The "Natioin Church" model before the cross - would have the ONE and only Gospel Gal 3:7, Gal 1:6-9 -- but it would also have earthly greatness should it choose that ONE Gospel in the context of a "nation church". That plan failed when the Jews rebelled against God and ultimately crucified their Messiah.

    The fallback is the "persecuted Church" model that we have today where we are still born-again under the SAME gospel - but the church instead of inheriting national greatness - gets slaughtered by the 100's of millions over the period of the dark ages and the future tribulation - well "yeah" that is the "new post-cross" form of it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The catch here is that law is written on every man's heart. It doesn't matter what the dispensation is: pre-cross, post-cross, or pre-law. Even those before the law had the law written on their hearts.
    What law was it then? It was the moral law of God.
    What is moral? There is nothing about keeping the Sabbath that is "moral."
    It is a covenantal law given to the Jews, that is the nation of Israel, and only the nation of Israel. The Gentiles have never been commanded to keep the Sabbath.
    There is nothing immoral about not keeping the Sabbath.
    There is nothing moral about keeping the Sabbath.

    The same is true about those who practice foot-washing.
    Did the Lord put the "law" of foot washing into your heart?
    There is nothing moral about keeping a tradition of foot-washing.
    There is nothing immoral about not keeping a tradition of foot washing.

    These are not moral/immoral "commands".
    However, adultery, theft, murder, etc. are all against our "morals." It is immoral to disobey those commands. They are the moral laws of God, and every man knows it, without exception.
     
  18. vooks

    vooks Active Member

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    Cults are good at redefining terms to advance their sectarian positions. Every time an Adventist runs into the word Commandment, they are taught that it means Ten Commandments. The truth is, Commandments is not restricted to the Ten and Adventists are in a serious dilemma if they admitted to this. So they resort to the most absurd path devoid of logic to support it.

    If BobRyan could coherently and scripturally defend his Adventist stance that COMMANDMENT is a term reserved for the Ten Commandments and nothing else, you could reason with him. Task him with this and he will throw dozens of scriptures without any explanation or reason to throw you off.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Not according to Jer 31 and Hebrews 8 - in those cases it is only those who enter into that new Covenant - everyone in the New Covenant has the Law of God written on the heart - all those outside it - did not.

    That is why Romans 8:5-8 insists that for the lost they "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they".

    The Bible does not say "everyone is under the New Covenant" either in the OT or NT.

    And those today who like you appear to want to say they are NOT under the New Covenant -- well they have free will - they can state the matter as they see it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You try to skirt around the issue. But there is no way that you can demonstrate how keeping or not keeping the Sabbath is moral or immoral.
    It is not according to Hebrews or any other book. The law is written on man's heart. Ask the heart of man.
     
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