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Besides Lordship Haters and Calvinist Shills...?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JDale, Jul 25, 2008.

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  1. JDale

    JDale Member
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    It seems this forum has become the haven of either easy-believism opponents of the Lordship of Christ, or the domain of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism.

    Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

    It just seems most "Baptists" here have gone to one of these two extremes. Is it only me who attempts to "remain at the center of Biblical tension," or are there others? Just shout out -- I'd like to know!


    :eek:

    JDale
     
    #1 JDale, Jul 25, 2008
  2. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member
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    Here 's one.
     
    #2 SBCPreacher, Jul 25, 2008
  3. JDale

    JDale Member
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    Praise God! Is there another? Won't you come forward...?

    Sorry, had to do my imitation of a Baptist Evangelist!
     
    #3 JDale, Jul 25, 2008
  4. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    You are not alone. :thumbs:
     
    #4 Benjamin, Jul 25, 2008
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Here's another. :wavey:
     
    #5 Amy.G, Jul 25, 2008
  6. lbaker

    lbaker New Member

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    My head is bowed and my hand is raised...
     
    #6 lbaker, Jul 25, 2008
  7. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    #7 Grasshopper, Jul 25, 2008
  8. JDale

    JDale Member
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    #8 JDale, Jul 25, 2008
  9. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    I stand in the mix as well - hand raised high.
     
    #9 Allan, Jul 25, 2008
  10. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Did you want to believe (according to Calvinism) while in your original nature?
    Answer: No

    Did God not have to change your nature?
    Answer: Yes He did.

    Did God do it when you didn't want Him to?
    Answer: Yes.

    Why did God have to change your nature?
    Answer: He did it to make you believe Him.

    In your new nature (according Calvinism) you "have to" believe Him, there is no other choice. God changed you (when you didn't want Him) to make you want Him.
    So would this not fall under the context of 'forced'?

    Some of our Baptist fore-fathers, some.
     
    #10 Allan, Jul 25, 2008
  11. Joe

    Joe New Member

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    Add me to this list...
     
    #11 Joe, Jul 25, 2008
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
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    #12 Grasshopper, Jul 25, 2008
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  13. JDale

    JDale Member
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    Grasshopper:

    I don't know Skypair well, but if he agrees with me most of the time, he must be a good guy.

    I don't know you either, but it appears you are an expert at deconstructing any statements you don't agree with and "reconstructing" them to sound more sinister than their context might ordinarily dictate.

    Have I been critical of Calvinism? Of Calvinists? Yes. Too many (though by NO means ALL) Calvinists tend to "toss a frog in the punch bowl" and then blame the person (non-Calvinists) who finds it for putting it there. Again, your previous post is exhibit B.

    I would note I've also been just as firm in my statements about the "Lordship Salvation hunters" who start a myriad of "Lordship = Legalism" or "Lordship = Works Salvation" threads. How different is that from Calvinists who post things like "When Synergists and Catholics Sound Alike," and conclude in the first two posts that "Catholics ARE Synergists!" The intent of such threads and posts (though NOT accurate) are not to further discussion or foster understanding.

    As I've repeated twice before, this thread was simply to look for those who did not hold to the rigid (is that better than "extreme?) views of the Lordship opponents and the Calvinist proponents. I am heartened to see that there are still some among Baptists....

    Are there others? Don't worry about your friends, they won't leave you? Won't you come? [​IMG]


    JDale
     
    #13 JDale, Jul 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2008
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    #14 Rippon, Jul 25, 2008
  15. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    It's because those 2 camps are the most vocal and aggressive, and start a lot of threads. You may have noticed I've complained about some of the Calvinists and their tendency to turn every debate into a Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist (though they use other terms) issue. Back in '04 when I first joined the BB, they had a Calvinist-non-Calvinist forum, which was nice as it gave a place for these people to vent. Then they took it away (I think it got too heated) but that only sends them into other forums and threads.
     
    #15 Marcia, Jul 26, 2008
  16. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I've been on board. Some things, such as grace, in my opinion, don't fall into some neat little theological box that some, in my opinion, try to force it into.
     
    #16 sag38, Jul 26, 2008
  17. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I am a Calvinist, but Calvinism is not my focus. But someone may say, "But I have seen you comment about it often." True, but in the context of the disucssions. Calvinism is not the focus of the Scriptures. Christ Jesus is and should be our focus as well.

    There are those on the boards that if I comment on a subject and it seems to carry some "calvinsim" in it they will reply to my post and try to draw me into a debate on the matter. You will notice that I hardly reply to such people.

    There are times when the Gospel is presented in such a way that to my mind is utterly obnoxious to the glory and majesty of God. So, you might see me seek to bring Scriptural clarification that would exalt the Lord above man. And I suppose there are times when I have been too preoccupied on particular doctrines (pun not intended). But God is faithful to us to bring us back to a pure devotion to Jesus.

    I do try to limit my polemic to an explaination of what and why I believe what I do in regards to Calvinism. This said, it is proper to teach positively and truthfully on the subjects of predestination, election, atonement, last things, the new birth, et. These are Scriptural subjects. You may disagree with how I have understood the received the Scripture, and that is fine, but I have never put my understanding as equally as infallible as the Scripture itself!

    I think we can all agree that the contention that seems to arise from these subjects or others is wearisome. It causes some to leave such online discussions altogether. Obviously its not the case with us, because here we are.

    To act with Christian charity on controversial subjects is not easy. We get offended at what someone says and make our reply in the offense when we would do well to pause long enough to pray and set our hearts right before we answer. Even if our opponent makes personal attacks and violates the "rules of debate" or exercises logical fallacies does not mean we should be the first to point them out. Sometimes I think a kind response, dealing with the subject, can work toward the good of our brethren much more than trying to defeat his or her argument on principles of logic.

    The goal of our theology brethren ought not to just be right. It ought to be to comprehend the mystery of the Gospel by the aid of God's Spirit through His Holy Scriptures that we might know HIm and be conformed to the image of the image of Christ, and if God wills, make His will known to others.
     
    #17 ReformedBaptist, Jul 26, 2008
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  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Very well said, ReformedBaptist! :applause: :applause:
     
    #18 John of Japan, Jul 26, 2008
  19. JDale

    JDale Member
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    I second JoJ's response. Excellent post RB!

    JDale
     
    #19 JDale, Jul 26, 2008
  20. jdlongmire

    jdlongmire New Member

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    Amen, my brother.

    Philippians 1:27
    Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
     
    #20 jdlongmire, Jul 26, 2008
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