BHO will rejoin his church after November 4

That's right and denying medical care to a living breathing infant is the same as murder.

Obama voted to deny that care to newborn infants.

That's murder.

 

Doesn't prove a thing.

He has been a "member" of a racist church, not a Christian church, for years.

His "Christian" testimony is damaged by both word and deed to the point of being non existent.

Come on.

Put up or shut up. Prove he's not a muslim.

 

I did, carpro. You lose this debate.

 

There has been no debate.

You temporarily ,I hope, lost your bearings over the word "perhaps" and provoked an argument you couldn't win.

No one can prove or disprove a "perhaps".


PAX. :thumbs:

 

That's why I called you on your use of innuendo, carpro, and you failed to back up your contention. You lose.

 

I made no contention.

You're letting your emotions steal your brains.

I'm done with responding to you [personal attack snipped] on this matter.

 

Good point. We speculate too much and we need to as generous to the intentions of others as is reasonable.

 

How so? I consider my 3 year old son a christian in terms of what he is taught and how he is raised. He is raised in a christian home and hopefully he will absorb the christian faith and be saved as an adult. Dont you think obamas parents thought the same thing when he was young?

AJ

 

Frankly, ajg1959, I have decided as of this moment not to care anymore about this "is Obama a Muslim" nonsense. If you, carpro, and others want to entertain doubts, or even believe, about Senator Obama being a Muslim, then go ahead.

Ya'll have no sound reasons at all to believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim. If ya'll want to be deceived on this subject, then just be deceived.

I am washing my hands of this subject.

 

The difference is that if your son grew up to stand for abortion and same-sex marriage, most reasonable people would assume that he had abandoned his Christian roots. Yet Mr. Obama is suspected of being a Muslim even though his position on these 2 issues could not be more at odds with Muslim teachings.

Besides, we all know many people who grew up in the church and / or in Christian homes and have clearly left the faith. I just don't see a compelling connection here.

 

Actually Ken, I have never said that he is a muslim today.....but I must say that it appears that he was considered a muslim at some point in his life.

I dont worry about him being a mole for islam penetrating our government like some do, and I dont think he has some sinister plot to turn on Israel and help the arabs "wipe them off the face of the map"

But, I do worry about his ties to Wright, Ayres and Farrakan, and several others. His ties to anti-white, and anti-american activists are a major cause for concern.

And as far as this thread goes, I have no idea what Obamas real thoughts or plans are concerning Rev Wright and Trinity, but I too wonder how much of his condemnation of them is real, and how much is political postering.

Ken, you and I are not much different in that we both are strongly in favor of improving the state of our country, the only question is how to go about it. If your side wins the election in Nov, then I pray that you were right all along and that we start to regain some of the integrity that we have lost as a nation.

I personally am afraid of who Obama really is, but I am also realistic enough to know that he will probably be elected. In that case, I hope my fears were for naught, and that he turns out to be a good president.

That is all any of us can really hope for.

AJ

PS....I still want him to drop the liberal social issues....abortion and gay rights....:smilewinkgrin:

 

OK, Pilate,

Granted, the evidence that he may be a closet muslim is not as strong as that suggesting he is not a Christian.

 

Response from Ken:

The facts prove your assumption is incorrect:

http://tinyurl.com/2z2lpf

So, I repeat - I still think he will "return to the religion of his father" if elected and once sworn in.

 

Okay - you have a point - his mommy sent an 8 year old to a Muslim school (maybe). That hardly makes Islam something he can "return to."

Are the saved kids in our church Catholics because the Catholic church runs the school system here and that is where their mommies and daddies send them?

 

I almost wish I believed in gambling. I could get massive odds on this one a make a fortune!

 

Actually, it was not his "mommy."

"He was registered as a Muslim because his father, Lolo Soetoro, was Muslim."

Did you miss the part of the research where he attended Friday prayers at the mosque? Apparently so.

The Catholic part of your argument is a red herring in light of the fact that according to Islam, when a person is born to a muslim father, they are always considered a muslim according to islam. As a "christian" he has not distanced himself from his islamic roots (until it became a political stumblingblock for his campaign) and even in his books he made it a point to embrace his islamic roots. And, as I stated, he may well "return to the religion of his father" if elected President.

Why won't you at least accept the possibility it could happen?

 

Because there is not one shred of evidence that it will. It is purely imagination and part of the "be afraid, be very afraid" campaign.

I did not overlook any of your sourced material - my guess is that he attended Friday prayers just like the kids here have to go to Catholic services occasionally.

You have intrigued me with the idea that everyone born to a Muslim father is always a Muslim no matter what. Could you provide a trustworthy source for that please?

 

Yes, he has his spiritual view that is so devastating, but he's smart enough to not rub it in America's face. I hope...

 

This was discussed in the Obama Apostate thread which, if I recall correctly, was dismissed as fear mongering. Nevertheless, here are 3 articles from trusted sources (New York Times, Christian Science Monitor, and Brussels Journal) about the perception in the islamic world of a person born to a muslim father:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opinion/12luttwak.html?ref=opinion

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2965

Here is an excellent post on the BB by a new member for those who missed it:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1242881&postcount=7

 

This argument needs to be named and shamed for what it is.

The whole notion that "if one is born to a Muslim father, one is then a Muslim" is so obviously incorrect, one stumbles over the rich set of counterarguments - there are so many ways to show that such an argument is incorrect, one almost does not know where to begin.

Imagine that I am born to a father who is an avid bridge enthusiast, and he belongs to a sect of people who claim that "by default, all children born to bridge enthusiasts are themselves bridge enthusiasts". Imagine then that people tell me later in life that I must be a bridge enthusiast because of this policy.

Can you imagine anything more absurd?

Mr. Obama is no more a Muslim by being born to a Muslim father than the daughter of NFL linebacker Brian Erlacher is an NFL linebacker herself.

People can invent all kinds of "policies" about whatever they want. But if Mr. Obama rejects the values of Islam, it does not matter one whit that there is this "rule" that somehow says he is still Muslim. Such policies in no way construct reality.

I am mystified why this line of thinking persists.