Bible inerrancy is well supported

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by kendemyer, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Dear Readers:

    I have looked into the issue of Bible inerrancy and I have discovered that many Bible believers are unaware of the vast amount of resources online and in written form that are available to them to help them resolve this issue in their mind. And the good news is that there are excellent websites and books that specialize in providing answers to questions people have regarding Bible inerrancy and more importantly provide specific answers. The purpose of this internet posting is to provide resources for the Bible believer regarding Bible inerrancy and also to briefly address the issue. My former Pastor called me "50 question Ken" when I was a new Christian and I know there are a lot of people like me. This posting is for those people especially. I got all my questions answered regarding Bible inerrancy so I want to let you know that it is possible!

    I believe the issue of Bible inerrancy has been poorly criticized by its opponents. Here is a essay that discusses this further:

    http://www.tektonics.org/calcon.html

    Here are some online resources for the Bible believer who wants answers to his questions regarding specific Bible inerrancy issues:

    http://www.inerrancy.org/

    http://www.tektonics.org/index2.html

    http://www.christian-thinktank.com

    http://www.blueletterbible.org (high quality online Bible commentaries, press L to see them)

    I also recommend the following written resources and authors:

    MacArthur Study Bible answers a lot of Bible inerrancy issues in its notes (I do not always agree with MacArthur's theology but he is a top notch scholar)

    Dr. Gleason Archer has been called the "a
    postle of Bible inerrancy". Dr. Geisler has also written some excellent works on this subject. Here is a link to some books by these gentleman:

    http://www.helpmewithbiblestudy.org/20s/t_difficulties.htm

    Lastly, although it is out of print and you would need to do a search through used book dealers I think the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia is a superb reference source that answers Bible questions.

    I also believe that Christian apologetics although no substitute for direct communion with God or the Scripture can help support a persons faith and also provide a reasonable defense for Christianity and the Bible. Here are some excellent Christian apologetic sites:

    http://www.apologetics.com/articles

    http://home.earthlink.net/~gbl111

    http://www.answersingenesis.org

    (I generally agree with most of the essays written at the above 2 Christian apologetic sites for the most part although two of the essays neglect to mention that the new city of Tyre is not built upon the old one although it is extremely close to it. Some of Pascal's writings are brilliant but I disagree with some points Pascal made).

    Here are some essays on Bible inerrancy:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/bible.asp

    Here is an essay I wrote on a comonly raised objection to Bible inerrancy:

    http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16860

    I hope these resources regarding Bible inerrancy prove helpful to you. Incidently, I have no desire to wrangle with people regarding the issue of Bible inerrancy. At this time, I have a lot on my plate but I felt the web did not give people enough guidepost to examining this issue from a advocacy of Bible inerrancy point of view. I hope my experience saves you a lot of time in examining this issue.

    At the very least I hope I got a discussion going on this issue and perhaps I will be able to join the discussion later. I certainly hope so!
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    The testimony of Christ is clear: inerrancy is a mandate.

    I have posted many times on this subject and demonstrated from Christ's words that he strongly embraced inerrancy.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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  4. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    What is your point, Ed?
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    You know there is a link
    in my post -- yes? If so go check it
    out and report back.
    Want me to put the results in this
    thread?

    While i'm sure others come here with an
    agenda, i'm here to find the truth
    and have some nice fellowship doing it.
    The milage of others may vary.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I saw the link. What is your point, that there is a link to a poll on innerancy?
     
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    What do you mean by "inerrancy"?
     
  8. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Dear Mr. Edwards:

    I realize that there are different views regarding inerrancy and your poll reflects this diversity of views. I do believe, however, that ultimately popular opinion or the opinions of various authorities can never replace the hard work of examining the issue yourself using the available facts. My initial purpose here was to give people the resources that are available but not widely known for the position of Bible inerrancy. Perhaps later I will decide to join a debate if one should ensue. In the meantime, I give the advice of the Scriptures themselves , "If anyone lacks wisdom let him ask of God."

    I would also like to add the sin of sloth is still very present today. Many people never really take the time to carefully examine most issues so it is not surprising that there is a diversity of views regarding Bible inerrancy. Some of the diversity of views regarding inerrancy is due to sincere and honest evaluation but I am afraid that much is not. We must also take into account man's rebellion.

    I do appreciate you polling comments on the issue of inerrancy because it shows there is a diversity of views but the larger question is "How many well informed and well reasoned views do we have on this issue?"
     
  9. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Dear Readers:

    I said that some sincere and honest people have a diversity of views regarding inerrancy (I should have included well studied too). I was speaking about the finer points of the doctrine of inerrancy.

    Dear Readers:

    Lastly, since someone brought up the finer points here is an excellent essay that covers these finere points:

    http://www.tektonics.org/JPH_IHI.html

    I should have clarified in that I believe the original copies of the Scripture were inerrant. I realize I cannot empirically prove that with 100% certainty since time has probably destroyed the originals and that is obviously where faith comes in.

    Sincerely,

    Ken
     
  10. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
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    Partly the situation with inerrancy is a definition of terms, as mentioned above. Partly it is a matter of having found some problem passages one cannot accept as being inerrant. Its easy to say one believes in the Bible being completely inerrant if one never thinks about what the Bible actually says.

    Consider these verses:

    I Cor 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
    15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
    16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

    If these were an ordinary writer, no one would think anything of it and many of us have studied these and seen the lesson Paul is giving and thought nothing else of these verses.

    But is verse 14 inerrant?

    How can it be inerrant if, two verses later, Paul himself feels the need to correct it?

    We can see with a little study how it came to be that Paul MADE the error. Stephanas was not a native to Corinth. He moved there AFTER HAVING BEEN BAPTISED by Paul and joined that church where Paul hadn't baptized anybody except Crispus and Gaius.

    Stephanas had even been entrusted by the Corinthians to take support money to Paul and had delivered it and would be taking the letter Paul was dictating back to them.

    This raises the possibility that Stephanas was even in the room as Paul was dictating the letter. After he dictated verse 14, Stephanas might have piped up, Hey, Paul, you baptized me! and then Paul added the correction. He even realized others might have been baptized by him and moved there and sort of indicated that in the phrase "besides, I know not whether I baptized any other."


    The point is, inerrent verses don't need correcting, do they?
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    If i say: "The Bible is the inerrant
    written word of GOd and can be found in
    all English versions." -- here is what
    i mean:
    "Inerrant" is axiomatic.
    If one can find an alledged eror,
    either an apparent internal conflict or a
    betwee-versions-oops --
    it is due to human misunderstanding
    NOT due to God's Holy Wirtten Word
    being wrong.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
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    If by inerrancy you mean you can read First Corinthians 1:14-17 and say still that verse 14 is inerrant, why, with that definition of inerrancy, I agree that the Bible is inerrant.
     
  13. Watchman

    Watchman
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    You bring up a good point Paul. Why didn't the Apostle Paul get it right in verse 14 in the first place? All scripture is given under inspiration of God, or, as Holy men were moved by the Holy Spirit. But does that mean a word-for-word dictation? What I mean to say, perhaps the Holy Spirit let these writers write, at least about things they know (Paul was, after all, writing here about something HE did.) Perhaps in these cases the Holy Spirit, "Steps In", so to speak, only to make corrections. As far as we know The Holy Spirit may have said, "Stephanas."
    Paul does begin verse 16 with, "Yes."
    At any rate, the end result was correct, complete and, therefore inerrant.
     
  14. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Dear Readers:

    Paul does not say he baptised Stephanas in Corinth. Also, Stephanas could have previously visited Corinth. I mainly posted this and a resource to Christians to answer their Bible questions. If anyone has any other questions please use the resources I post in my next posting because I added some material and examples.

    I wish I had the time to address people's Bible difficulties at this time but I have some temporary restraints upon my time. I have updated my material and this should prove helpful.

    Sincerely,

    Ken DeMyer
     
  15. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Dear Readers:

    Here is any updated version of the resources I gave earlier with some examples of what the resources can do for believers.

    Here are some resources that are very user friendly and can and will offer great answers to your Bible questions plus offer some helpful essays regarding the issue of Bible inerrancy.

    A great plus for these sites is the vast majority of the first 5 links I mention enable you to look up the verse directly and easily without spending a great deal of time searching for the answers. Also, many will enable you to search by topic.

    I believe the issue of Bible inerrancy has been poorly criticized by its opponents. Here is a essay that discusses this further:

    http://www.tektonics.org/calcon.html

    Here are some online resources for the Bible believer who wants answers to his questions regarding specific Bible inerrancy issues:

    http://www.inerrancy.org/ (offers quick concise and scholarly answers)

    http://www.tektonics.org/index2.html (Bible questions URL) and www.tektonics.org (main URL for website) This site offers quick and concise answers plus offers some more in depth analysis for those who want it on some issues)

    http://www.christian-thinktank.com (has similiarities to site directly above but not as easy to navigate. He does have some good things to say particulary on the more complex issues although sometimes I do not agree with him on the complex issues and like http://www.inerrancy.org better).

    http://www.blueletterbible.org (high quality online Bible commentaries, once you look up the verse using their user friendly interface, press L to see the commentaries)


    Before I give you some written sources I would say that using the search engine http://www.google.com can uncover extremely well written and researched webpages not listed in the above links. This is especially true if you know how to use http://www.google.com which is very easy to do which can be seen at these links: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en and http://www.google.com/helprefinesearch.html

    Here are some examples of great sites I found through http://www.google.com on Noah's ark for example through the aid of http://www.google.com

    http://www.asknoah.org/arkdesign.html (Noah's ark seen through the eyes of a nautical engineer)

    http://www.home.earthlink.net/~arktracker/ark/Sightings.html (Ark historical accounts)


    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp (Noah's ark, objections answered)

    http://www.evcforum.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000090.html (Noah's ark debate)

    http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BnoahsArkAndInsects49.htm (Noah's ark, objection answered)

    http://www.ldolphin.org/cisflood.html (Noah's ark website article)


    Here is a great website I found on another topic, Jonah and the great fish, which I thought was a vey well researched article (although I do not think one of his accounts is valid [the James Bartley account]:

    http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJonahDebate.htm (great facts and accounts)


    I also recommend the following written resources and authors:

    MacArthur Study Bible answers a lot of Bible inerrancy issues in its notes (I do not always agree with MacArthur's theology but he is a top notch scholar)

    Dr. Gleason Archer has been called the "apostle of Bible inerrancy". Dr. Geisler has also written some excellent works on this subject. Here is a link to some books by these gentleman:

    http://www.helpmewithbiblestudy.org/20s/t_difficulties.htm

    Lastly, although it is out of print and you would need to do a search through used book dealers I think the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia is a superb reference source that answers Bible questions.

    I also believe that Christian apologetics although no substitute for direct communion with God or the Scripture can help support a persons faith and also provide a reasonable defense for Christianity and the Bible. Here are some excellent Christian apologetic sites:

    http://www.apologetics.com/articles (comprehensive site)

    http://home.earthlink.net/~gbl111 (VERY comprehensive apologetics site)

    http://www.answersingenesis.org (creationist and science issues)

    (I generally agree with most of the essays written at the above 2 Christian apologetic sites for the most part although two of the essays neglect to mention that the new city of Tyre is not built upon the old one although it is extremely close to it. Some of Pascal's writings are brilliant but I disagree with some points Pascal made).

    Here are some essays on Bible inerrancy:

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/bible.asp

    Here is an essay I wrote on a comonly raised objection to Bible inerrancy:

    http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16860

    I hope these resources regarding Bible inerrancy prove helpful to you. Incidently, I have no desire to wrangle or debate with people regarding the issue of Bible inerrancy. At this time, I have a lot on my plate but I felt the web did not give people enough guidepost to examining this issue from a advocacy of Bible inerrancy point of view. I hope my experience saves you a lot of time in examining this issue.
     
  16. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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  17. Charles Meadows

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    I would say that based on what it IS the Bible MUST be inerrant. The definition of inerrant is a little tough! It seems to me that anything written in human language has the LIMITATIONS imposed by that language - that does not mean there is ERROR. I think that the NIV and KJV can both be "inerrant" in terms of doctrine - even though there are some wording differences.
     
  18. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Here is something interesting and colorful regarding the issue of Bible inerrancy:

    Believe it or not skeptics have sued Christians over the issue of Bible inerrancy
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In America, it is hard to think of something that is not sued over. Bible inerrancy is no exception to things sued over.
    There was a very flamboyant Bible inerrantist and creationist by the name of Dr. Harry Rimmer. I have heard some negative reports about Dr. Rimmer by both sides of the Christian/skeptic aisle and whether they are true or untrue is not of paramount importance to me so I never checked out the reports (He was sued over Bible inerrancy and I was most interested in the results of the trial and the trial itself). I heard about Dr. Rimmer from my teaching assistant for my calculus class in college and I got a big laugh out of the following story because it seemed humorous that someone would offer a reward to anyone finding an error in the Bible as a challenge and that some people would later sue over the issue of Bible inerrancy:

    I believe for about a decade Dr. Rimmer offered a reward to any skeptic who was able to find an error in the Bible. If memory serves, I believe the reward started off small but quickly was upped to $1,000. Dr. Rimmer was sued twice by skeptics and Dr. Rimmer won both cases.

    Here is a synopsis of his trials although it seems to be incomplete as you will soon see:

    http://www.asa3.org/archive/ASA/199909/0029.html

    Here is a larger account of the one trial it appears:

    http://craig_pages.tripod.com/Bible_Study/Revelation/Bible_Defeats_Atheism.htm

    It seems as it the climax of the case is the issue of "Does the hare chew the cud?" although there were more than one allegation regarding the Bible brought up by the claimants. I wrote a piece regarding the hare/cud issue if anyone wants to read it. Here is my essay:

    http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16860

    Here are some solutions to claim 5 by the claimant regarding the animals going into the ark in Genesis 6:

    http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20010429.htm (I like this one the best)

    http://www.tektonics.org/arkbeasts.html (discusses the Hebrew)

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/faq/r&r8612c.htm

    Sincerely,

    Ken DeMyer
     
  19. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Here is something I wrote (which is based on something a Christian apologist wrote at the following Austalian magazine called Investigator Magazine plus a Jewish site I once read regarding archeaology):

    You raised the best question of all I thought. Is proving an inerrant Bible possible? That seems to be the $64,000 question doesn't it?

    Here is a scenario:

    You are in a cab. A doctor is in the cab next to you. Suddenly, you feel immense pain in your midsection. You tell the doctor where it hurts. The doctor proceeds then to ask you some questions. The doctor then says, "I think we need to rush to the hospital. I think you have an acute problem with your appendix. You ask the doctor: "Are you absolutely sure? Is it possible it is something else?" The doctor says, "Well it is possible I guess that it is something else, but I strongly recommend we rush to the hospital right now." You say, "Well, If you are not absolutely sure I am not going to the hospital. I am going to visit my girlfriend."

    I would say the above illustration shows the difference between moral certainty and absolute certainty. I would argue that we can have great moral certainty regarding inerrancy based on our intellectual abilities. I also would say that in everyday life we constanty make decisions using moral certainty and not absolute certainty. I also know from experience and the experience of others that God can and does reveal Himself, His thoughts regarding Scripture, also He reveals what wants for us to those who diligently seek Him. Do all diligently seek Him? The Bible says indicates that few do seek God, but He is available.

    So how can one attain this moral certainty regarding the great reliability of the Scriptures - namely Bible inerrancy - using the brain I believe God has given us? One way Christians try to pursuade others, and I would not recommend this, is to do the following: argue about the fossil record gaps using a lot of respected scientists and examples, quote other scientists and examples regarding the richness of the fossil record created by the over 100 million fossils recorded in natural museums, quote neo-darwinists and punctuated equilibrium scientists bickering among themselves over germaine matters, and lastly, quote a evolutionists saying in the Wall Street Journal on June 15, 1979 saying "the creationists tend to win the debates." I know this type of debate and have seen it and even particated in it myself in it myself. At best, I think it can only eliminate an objection to the Bible. Plus, I have seen the two sides go at it for days or weeks or months without much being accomplished. Also, I do not think it is going to persuade people of Bible inerrancy or Christianity. I know that many Christians try this method to show that Christianity and the Bible is valid and sometime it may even be very helpful but it is not going to create a revival. I do think that the discussion certainly has its place though and hence many this board's forums have a place.

    Here is what I believe is a better way:

    Since this is a science forum I will illustrate things in a scientific manner. Inductive logic, which science uses, is where we generalize from particular items to general conclusions.

    Following this logic, if the Bible regularly turns out true regarding matters we can verify and its detractors in error we can expect more of the same. In life, if a individual is regularly reliable we are more likely to trust him the next time.

    Now I would argue that we should strive to first examine the things that are easiest attainable and then move up step by step in difficulty during this verification process of the Bible. I have given the examples, of the hyrax, lions, cobra, and stars where the consensus of scientists were wrong and the Bible proved to be right in the long run. There are other examples as well in science. I am sure if you will do a study of Christian apologetics through a Christian bookstore or though the web resources I have given you will see more examples. Given my time constraints I have I cannot offer you more at this time (I said I cannot debate. Starting tommorow I am putting more hours in with my work plus there are other matters as well).

    Now here is a very important question. What is the Bible's batting average in terms of being right in the long run on historical matters? I you look at the forward the a new Oxford Bible Commentary edited by John Barton and John Muddiman you will find that they take a "chastened historical criticism" approach. Is Barton or Muddiman a Bible inerrantist? No they are not. But I think it is fair to say that they are admitting that the Bible's critics have been proved historically wrong in many cases. If you do further research you will see this was accomplished though archeaology and other methods.
     
  20. kendemyer

    kendemyer
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    Here is something else I wrote on Bible inerrancy which might be of interest to some people:

    Many skeptics, though not all, approach the whole debate between skeptics and Christians as if it were a "tabla rasa" debate that started just recently. I would submit there is a long pedigree of Bible statements being proved true and a long pedigree of skeptics assertions being overturned. I cited the comments of the John Barton and his co-editor in the recent Oxford Bible Commentary to support this claim ("chastened historical criticism") plus I gave other examples. If you want further elaboration of this fact I suggest the following link: http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BWilliamsvsAnon71to73.htm
    (see the essay "The Bible: Tested, True, Triumphant")
     

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