Bible teaches total abstinence from alcoholic beverages

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Psalm145 3, Oct 18, 2002.

  1. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3
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    Since this is a fundamental baptist forum, let's act like fundamentalists and go to God's absolutely inerrant AUTHORITATIVE Word to find out what God has to say about alcohol. I read most of the 14 pages of the other thread about alcohol and was surprised that most people seem to think that drinking alcohol in moderation is o.k. as long as it doesn't offend a brother or tarnish his testimony among worldlings. But the Bible teaches differently.

    The Bible teaches total abstinence from alcoholic beverages.

    Pastors must abstain from alcohol:
    1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant ,sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach.
    The word "vigilant" is translated from the Greek word "nephaleos" (nay-fal'-ee-os) Strong's # 3524, it's derived from the Greek word "nepho" (nay'-fo)Strong's #3525, it means to abstain from wine (keep sober).

    1 Timothy 3:11 "sober" - same word, "nephaleos" #3524.

    Aged men are commanded to be sober:
    Titus 2:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
    God the Holy Spirit used the same word here, "nephaleos" Strong's #3524 -to abstain from wine (keep sober).

    Every person in the Thessalonian church is commanded to abstain from alcohol:
    1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    Strong's #3525 -to abstain from wine.

    All believers, bar none, are commanded to abstain from alcoholic beverages:
    1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

    2 Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
    "watch" - Strong's #3525 - "nepho"- to abstain from wine.

    1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
    "watch - Strong's #3525 - "nepho"- to abstain from wine.

    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.
    "sober" - Strong's #3525 - "nepho"- to abstain from wine.

    It is clear from God's absolutely inerrant Word that we are to totally abstain from alcoholic beverages. It is NOT o.k. for a Christian to drink moderately.

    Even slight drinking impairs one's thinking and lowers alertness to spiritual danger (1 Pe. 5:8,9).

    Christians are not to be controlled by liquor (Ep. 5:18).

    Christians are priests, and the Bible forbids priests to drink (1 Pe. 2:9; Le. 10:8,11).

    Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Co. 6:17--7:1).

    Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Th. 5:22).

    Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Ro. 14:21).

    Wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Pr. 20:1).
     
  2. Optional

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    This is a total misrepresentation.

    νηφάλεος, νηφάλιος
    nēphaleos nēphalios
    nah-fal'-eh-os, nay-fal'-ee-os
    From G3525; sober, that is, (figuratively) circumspect: - sober, vigilant.

    Nothing to do with alcohol.
     
  3. Don

    Don
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    No, Optional, it's not.

    From Strong's:
    3524 νηφαλεος nephaleos nay-fal'-eh-os or νηφαλιος nephalios nay-fal'-ee-os

    from <3525>; ; adj

    AV-sober 2, vigilant 1; 3

    1) sober, temperate
    1a) abstaining from wine, either entirely or at least from its immoderate use
    1b) of things free from all wine, as vessels, offerings

    Unfortunately, my Vine's doesn't give a definition for the word "vigilant" in 1 Tim 3:2.
     
  4. Jim1999

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    It has always been my understanding to totally abstain from the use of alcoholic beverages. It was the understanding of the evangelical church until a few years ago when some members found it socially acceptable to imbibe in "moderation".

    I cannot argue with those who feel it is ok. It is more a personal question in my mind, but as for me and my house,,,we shall avoid any question of approval for this useless and harmful brew.

    As I have said on other threads, the question of drinking alcohol would not even be raised in an evangelical church 30 years ago.

    Cheers in the Lord,

    Jim
     
  5. Ransom

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    Don said:

    1) sober, temperate
    1a) abstaining from wine, either entirely or at least from its immoderate use
    1b) of things free from all wine, as vessels, offerings


    Ah, but note that the primary definition of the term does allow for moderation. "Temperate" does not mean "abstinent"; and 1a does say that "abstaining . . . from its immoderate use" is within the semantic range of nephaleos.

    It seems to me that nephaleos does allow for the possibility of moderate drinking. Moreover, those who say that the Bible's position is complete abstinence must still deal with the many passages that commend, or even command, the use of wine.

    Jim1999 said:

    [Abstinence] was the understanding of the evangelical church until a few years ago when some members found it socially acceptable to imbibe in "moderation".

    True as far as it goes, but if you're going to argue from history then it must also be pointed out that the total abstinence position is itself of relatively recent origin, coming into being around 100-150 years ago, born along with the Social Gospel. Before that, I believe you will find that the Church was pretty much unanimous in condemning drunkenness, but not moderate use of wine and alcohol. One of our local universities has a dissertation on this subject in the library, which I will get around to reading one of these days.

    [ October 18, 2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  6. BrianT

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    If you read "most of the 14 pages", you certainly would have come across the discussion about 1 Cor 8 and Rom 14, where it teaches *exactly* that.
     
  7. BrianT

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    Keep those 4 verses firmly in mind, throw in "James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:" and then think real hard about Christ's actions in John 2. ;)
     
  8. Music Man

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    and Pauls suggestion to Timothy in 1 Tim. 5:23:
    Also, let's go back more than 30 years to the 1925 Baptist Faith and Message. It stated:
    It was not until after Prohibition that SBC churches stopped using wine. It was used in most churches before then. Our aversion to wine came as a result of Prohibition. It is legalism.

    Soli Deo Gloria,
    Chris
     
  9. RomOne16

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    Ack! Did we really need another thread on alcohol??? :rolleyes: Isn't this horse dead already? [​IMG]
     
  10. Daniel David

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    Actually Romone16, if you paid attention, the head still moves when it is kicked.
     
  11. Johnv

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    Nepho in the Bible does not mean to abstain from wine. When it's referring to the drink, it referrs to abstaining from intoxication.

    When not referring to wine, it means to be calm and collected in spirit, temperate, dispassionate, circumspect.

    Don't even get me started on Jesus drinking passover wine and sharing it with his desciples!

    In other words, we're to refrain from getting drunk.

    We need another thread about this topic like we need a hole in the head.

    [ October 18, 2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
  12. Johnv

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    Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Co. 6:17--7:1).
    Agreed. Wine in the Bible has been a symbol of sacrifice and putity, and isnot considered an unclean thing.

    Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Th. 5:22).
    Agreed. While drunkenness is evil, consumption of wine is not.

    Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Ro. 14:21).
    The verse reads "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." So unless we're to become vegetarians, I'll venture to say this is being taken out of context.

    Wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Pr. 20:1).
    The word here in Hebrew is yayin which contextually here in intoxication, not wine itself.

    [ October 18, 2002, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
  13. blackbird

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    Don't get me started!!

    Indulging in alcoholic beverages--is an insult to the Holy Spirit living inside a born again believer! It is offensive to Him to whom must be in total control or He will have no control.

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  14. ChristianCynic

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    Is it an "insult" to the Holy Spirit to calim He was wrong to inspire Paul to instruct Timothy to take wine? {IF this is the Word of God, the HS did inspire it.}

    And no, we don't need another thread about alcohol, but who cares? We might as well sloth our time away with more of this than with the other hot topics... KJVO, 'tithing' v. cheerful giving, divorce, the evils of women wearing pants....
     
  15. Don

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    Ransom, go back and look at who I was addressing, and what they posted.

    [ October 18, 2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Don ]
     
  16. Ransom

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    Thanks Don, my mistake. That's one of the problems with these non-threaded message boards; it's more difficult to tell what is in response to what.

    My point does stand on its own, nonetheless (contra Psa's assertion the word stands for total abstinence).
     
  17. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3
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    The concordance I have says the word "nepho" means "to abstain from wine (keep sober)",it says nothing about temperance or moderation. #3525 STRONG'S EXHAUSTIVE CONCORDANCE OF THE BIBLE by James Strong, Hendrickson Publishers. I've noticed that in the newer concordances it adds "temperate" and "immoderate use." Has the definition changed with increasing apostasy over the years?

    1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

    This verse cannot possibly be talking about alcoholic wine because it says it's for Timothy's stomach. Any medical doctor will tell a person with any kind of stomach disease to abstain from alcoholic beverages. If our doctors know that today, don't you think God the Holy Spirit knew that when He gave these words?

    I don't have time right now, but I want to deal with John chapter 2, the marriage in Cana. The Lord Jesus Christ did not make alcoholic wine. The Lord Jesus Christ never drank a drop of alcohol.
     
  18. Optional

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    Don,
    Ransom made my point. I was in a hurry this morning. The fact is the use of the word "sober" in I Timothy 3:11 has nothing to do with alcohol. The funny thing is even if it did - noone's arguing you shouldn't stay sober.

    I've stated before I don't drink, but to say it's not in the Bible is really doing a revisionist job.
    Question to all who oppose drink. If I or my wife want to have a glass of wine in the privacy of our own home, what is it to you or anyone else? How does this cause a brother to stumble or whatever?

    By the way psalms,
    the same Strong's you used earlier says the wine Jesus created was alcoholic - but I await your post otherwise for enlightenment.

    Also, I have noticed noone endorsing drunkeness of any sort. So why do people continually trot out verses to do with staying sober or drunkeness when noone advocate's that position?

    [ October 18, 2002, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Optional ]
     
  19. BrianT

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    Because it's more dramatic. [​IMG] I wonder why these same people aren't also against eating because gluttony is a sin. [​IMG]

    Psalm1453, when you address John 2, keep in mind that I am not trying to argue that Christ drank wine there, but that from your verses you posted (Christians are not to touch the unclean thing (2 Co. 6:17--7:1), Christians are to abstain from every form of evil (1 Th. 5:22), Christians who drink cause others to stumble (Ro. 14:21), and Wine is a mocker and a deceiver (Pr. 20:1)), in John 2 we see Christ creating an unclean thing, creating the appearance of evil, potentially causing others to stumble, and promoting a mocker and a deceiver. And if you consider James 1:13, if drinking wine is a sin, Jesus created one great big temptation for those present.

    Suppose you were at that wedding. Would you be crying "Heretic!" or "Hallelujah!"?
     
  20. Johnv

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    Indulging in alcoholic beverages--is an insult to the Holy Spirit living inside a born again believer! It is offensive to Him to whom must be in total control or He will have no control.

    Then how do you explain the consumption of wine by Jesus and the Apostles?

    It's abundantly clear biblically that wine is not an issue. Intoxication is.

    If you want to be literal and say that wine is forbidden, then, there in the bible does it forbid bourbon or vodka? It doesn't. Therefore, according to your literal interpretation, drunkenness is forbidden (which we all accept) and wine is forbidden (which we dispute), but other alcoholic beverages are allowed, so long as consumption of them does not exceed the limit of being intoxicated. *** taunting edited****

    [ October 18, 2002, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]
     

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