Bible Versions

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Preacher Nathan Knight, Apr 2, 2003.

  1. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight
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    I would like to hear of some situations where the other versions actually worked better than the 1611 KJV. Please do not count the situations where the others where understood better, especially seein as how the KJV is on a 5th grade reading level.
     
  2. Harald

    Harald
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    Mr. Knight. By "working better" do you perchance mean translated more accurately or something similar?


    If that is the meaning I can straightway give one example.

    Look at 1Corinthians 1:25 in both the KJV and the LITV and MKJV. These two "work better" in this verse than the KJV, because the KJV introduces an attribute of God which has not support in all the word of God, nor in the Greek Testament underlying the KJV, nor in Christian systematic theology where God's attributes are touched upon.


    For your information: the KJV says "foolishness of God" whereas the other two correctly say "foolish thing of God". Other examples could be given but not now.

    Harald
     
  3. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    I have found it works a lot better in preaching because I have spend much less time explaining old words and difficult sentence structures. The KJV is not on a fifth grade reading level. That is a common misconception. That is a mechanical designation that compares length of words and the like. It has no way to contemplate how difficult those words are. Test the reading level by putting it in front of actual kids (who didn't grow up on the KJV) and see what their response is. That will disabuse you of the 5th grade reading level notion in a hurry.
     
  4. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Here's a challenge PNK. Take a KJV and a NKJV/NASB/ESV/NIV to a 5th grade class at Dallas Elem... or Hiram or New Georgia or Powder Springs or anywhere else close by. Get two groups of unchurched kids and have them read 2 Thess 2:1-10 and tell you what it means. Let us know which group comes closer the correct meaning of the text.

    Many if not most of the reading level indicators assumes that the text is in contemporary English then relies on syllables and word length to determine difficulty. They have no mechanism to account for words that have dropped out of usage or changed meaning.
     
  5. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight
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    When I say "work better" I meant in preaching, witnessing,teaching, etc.

    Scottj- are you from GA?
     
  6. Scott J

    Scott J
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    I will PM you so as to not clutter the thread.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Then I would stick with my original response -- it is just easier to understand and takes much less explanation of the words, enabling more explanation of the intent and the truth. For teaching, modern versions tend to be more consistent in the translation of particular grammatical features it seems, enabling easier explanation of those.
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Now listen to me very carefully.

    THE KING JAMES BIBLE IS NOT ON A FIFTH GRADE READING LEVEL.

    If you don't believe me, ask a fifth grader.

    My stepdaughter became born again using the NIV. Had I forced the KJV upon her as the only alternative, she to this day would not be reading the bible, except by force. Now, I don't even like the NIV, myself. I prefer the NKJV and ASV.

    Wanna know something even funnier? My Jewish friends use a copy of the OT that's an NIV translation. One of them, who is fluent in Hebrew and is familiar with the Hebrew OT, tells me that the NIV is more faithful to the Hebrew than the KJV. Seeing as how he's also messianic in his beliefs, I see no reason to disbelieve him.
     
  9. TomVols

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    1. It is patently false that the KJV is on a 5th grade level.
    2. What do you mean by "work better?" You obviously have an agenda, so come out with it. :D

    It is the conservative, Bible believing world that overwhelmingly asserts that the KJV is no longer the most accurate translation of Scripture. So in that way, the "works better" argument is answered.
     
  10. neal4christ

    neal4christ
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Neal
     
  11. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
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    I teach elementary school. I have never had any 5th grade student who could understand very much of the KJV. Maybe a 5th year college student.
     
  12. Askjo

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    The KJV agreed with the wording of the autograph on Romans 14:10, for example. Why did Modern Versions negate with the wording of the autographs on Romans 14:10?

    Please do not count the situations where the others where understood better, especially seein as how the KJV is on a 5th grade reading level.[/QUOTE]

    I recommend a book, "Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version" by D.A. Waite Jr. This book will tell you very interesting! [​IMG]
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    How do you know what the autographs said? The manuscripts closest to the autographs read "Theou" not "Christou." IN some copies early on, the word "theou" that Paul wrote probably got swapped for "Christou" because of what Paul wrote somewhere else (2 Cor 5:10). The evidence leads us to believe that "theou" was originally written, rather than "christou."
     
  14. Haruo

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    But it says right there is the Bible that it's at the fifth grade level, don't it? ;) Seriously, PNK, what sort of authority do you appeal to for your assertion (which obviously strikes me and many others here as ludicrous)?

    Haruo
     
  15. TomVols

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    There is a test that many KJVOs use that counts the length of a word, and the theory goes that the shorter a word is, the easier it is to use. Therefore, ye is easier than you only becuase it is shorter. Excursis would be an easier word than rectangle because it is shorter. This method is as flawed as can be.
     
  16. Pastor_Bob

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    Would it be safe to assume that you do not refer back to the original Greek and Hebrew because of the time involved explaning what the words actually mean? If you do, why wouldn't it be just as easy to use the KJV as opposed to any other version?
     
  17. swordsman

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    The confusion comes from the fact that the KJV USED to be on the fifth grade reading level for this nation, Ex. the McGuffey Readers, they are VERY advanced for the average public school student. The 12th grade reading list from these old school readers is now the equivalent to todays 4th year college.
     
  18. AV Defender

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    Well said PastorBob..
     
  19. TomVols

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    Using a MV helps you skip an unnecessary step in the process because you no longer have to bridge the gap between the English of today, the english of the KJV, and the meaning of the Hebrew/Greek. Besides, the MVs are typically based on the best mss, where the KJV was not.
     
  20. Haruo

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    That last statement is precisely one of the major points at issue: most MVs are based at least in part on the "Alexandrian", non-Textus-Receptus MSS that KJVOers often believe are actually Redactiones Diaboli.

    Actually this is a great argument for reading the Bible in Chinese. Their words are much shorter than ours on average, especially in the written language. A three-character Chinese word is actually on the long side. Must be so easy we could all learn it this weekend and start worshipping in it on Easter. [​IMG]

    Haruo
    Japanese-worshipping Esperantist
     

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